[00:00:30]
Interviewer:
Okay, interview with Lawson Brainerd on August 5, 1988. Okay, so let's start again. You were talking about Joe Bickerstaff.
Lawson:
[00:01:00]
And Joe Bickerstaff was, he was raised around the entrance here, some place. They had their home here. His family was and he was raised here and he had the reputation of being quite a game poacher and-
Interviewer:
What kind of game, Lawson?
Lawson:
Salmon mostly.
Interviewer:
Really?
Lawson:
[00:01:30]
When the salmon were running and I had never caught him with salmon, so I don't know. It's just the reputation he had. But he knew the [inaudible 00:01:19] pretty well and I was trying to find the station, when the railroad used to stop and ends there, wherever they were, was the railroad stop. He was getting along in years at that time and I-
Interviewer:
What year was that?
Lawson:
Oh, that must have been in the '50s and he said he could show me all the places, but I got bring him out. So I brought him out and we got up there, he couldn't find them as much as I could. I'd found some already and he didn't even know where they were. But he was an old-timer that was raised-
[00:02:00]
Interviewer:
When did you first meet him?
Lawson:
I don't know when the first time I met him. His brother, I think his brother was in the police department and probably met him through him. But I don't know what he did for a living, but the family lived out here though. They were well known.
Interviewer:
Where did they live out here?
[00:02:30]
Lawson:
I don't know just where the house was, but there was, right below the end, there was a house there that may have been it. There was nobody here-
Interviewer:
Can you tell me about the house, what did it look like?
Lawson:
Oh, it was just a very slimly built house and I never was in it, but there's an old German that had it at the time and I remember when we had extra wood when we took different things down and we'd give it to him.
Interviewer:
This was not Bickerstaff. This was somebody else?
[00:03:00]
Lawson:
It wasn't Bickerstaff then. Bickerstaff moved, I think all of them were in Mill Valley at that time.
Interviewer:
Did he live here with his family?
Lawson:
I don't know that Joe had a family or not. But he lived in, his father and mother and I believe brothers were here. I never heard about a girl, or-
Interviewer:
Was his father named Joe too, or?
Lawson:
I guess so. I don't know what his father's name was.
[00:03:30]
Interviewer:
What can you tell me about Joe's place? How did that start?
Lawson:
Well, the dance hall down in the back of the building that's down here now.
Interviewer:
Uh-huh. It started as a dance hall?
Lawson:
[00:04:00]
I think so. It wasn't used as a dance hall much after I came, but it was for sale when I came, I think. A woman, I think Chalet's mother owned that. I know it was for sale for $5,000 at that time.
Interviewer:
What year was it that you came to the park?
Lawson:
That I came to the park? 1942.
Interviewer:
How long were you here?
Lawson:
Until I retired in March 1965.
Interviewer:
Oh 1965, okay.
Lawson:
[00:04:30]
[00:05:00]
I came here in February 1942 and I came down here to, I had been promised the job and then came down just to look for a place to live, to move down here and they'd had one of the biggest storms I guess they ever had in Muir Woods. I think it rained five inches in one night, in one day and night and I was on annual leave and they switched me on to, off annual leave onto regular and tried to keep the culverts clear and they were just big corrugated pipes and then they all got stopped up and then some were very, one just above, the bridge just above the Cathedral Grove, was buried I guess two and a half feet, in fact, they had a heck of a time finding it. It was all filled in there, from slides that came down from the canyon just above Cathedral Grove.
Interviewer:
That was a winter storm.
[00:05:30]
Lawson:
[00:06:00]
It was in February, yeah. I don't remember just what the date. But we had quite a job digging them out and after that superintendent, the last one, had kind of got, kind of running things here, they were doing ranger's work here, my assistant and I put in the bridges on the canyons coming down from [inaudible 00:05:58], so because the culverts used to get stopped up when a stick get across them and stuff. They were just replaced, oh about four years ago.
Interviewer:
Now when you arrived in 1945, right?
Lawson:
'42.
Interviewer:
'42. How many bridges were there total over Redwood Creek, on the valley floor?
Lawson:
Let me see. One, two, three, four, five, six. I guess seven.
Interviewer:
Seven.
Lawson:
I think so.
Interviewer:
Were they all redwood log bridges?
[00:06:30]
Lawson:
They were all redwood log bridges.
Interviewer:
Were they split whole logs?
Lawson:
[00:07:00]
No, they were not. They were the whole logs and they'd been adzed off the top and then I imagine where they made them saw down a certain length and then chip that off and then smooth it with an adze. I don't know how they made it, but it looks to me like the way others have been made anyhow. But they were big logs and they were, there was another one, an eighth. But they called it natural bridge.
Interviewer:
Where was that?
Lawson:
That's where the second bridge is now.
Interviewer:
Where the second bridge was.
Lawson:
[00:07:30]
Yeah, you can still see the old stump sticking up there. But it got pretty narrow at this end of it and a woman fell off of it, or stepped off, or something and I guess broke her hip and instead of suing the Park Service, she sued the bus driver, because he had let her do it. So I don't know how it came out. There was quite a confound about it.
Interviewer:
But they didn't have sides at the time?
Lawson:
No. No, they just, it would have been easy to step off of them. One time I remember, a couple of sailors were out here and one of them, I guess he was looking around and he stepped off at the wrong place and broke both wrists. Can you imagine?
Interviewer:
This was while you were working here?
Lawson:
[00:08:00]
Yeah. Broke both wrists and came over about two weeks afterwards and he had to have somebody with him, because he couldn't do anything, take off his clothes and do everything.
Interviewer:
Okay. Now I want you to think about the very first time, you ever came into Muir Woods. Your very first vision of the entrance. What did it look like?
Lawson:
[00:08:30]
Well, at that time, it was just raining, pitchforks falling down and the water was clear up to the parking area and it was going around and over the log bridges and it was really storming hard.
Interviewer:
And you drove in. What kind of car were you driving in?
Lawson:
I had a Pontiac and we just came over here to look the situation over and I know we stayed here. They had us put on regular duty and stayed for about three days and that-
Interviewer:
Didn't have a place to live at the time?
Lawson:
Well, we stayed with Fin, the superintendent.
Interviewer:
Oh, you stayed with Fin, superintendent. I see. Uh-huh.
[00:09:00]
Lawson:
I left my wife and her daughter down here. She was starting high school and we rented a place on Myrtle Street, just one block down from where I am now and they had a bed and not much more and then I went back to wait until the papers went through, so I could move my belongings and I don't know, it was two weeks I guess before they got those things in motion. Why, I don't know.
[00:09:30]
Interviewer:
What did the entrance look like? Was it different then it is today?
Lawson:
Well the entrance was two logs, big log posts, with a log across on top. What swung on that was the sign, mural with National Department Interior right down by the kiosk here.
Interviewer:
Was the kiosk there at the time?
Lawson:
No. No, we built the kiosk. Somebody, I think we had one down there for a little while, but we didn't stay down there very much.
[00:10:00]
Interviewer:
Were they charging a fee at that time, when you first started?
Lawson:
No. No.
Interviewer:
How many people were working here, permanent at that time?
Lawson:
[00:10:30]
Well when I came here, I was, the supe and I were the only ones and then, oh I forgot, it must have been about 1950, right after the war, about 1955, we got another permanent ranger and I don't know the dates, the rest we had two or three permanent ones. But they couldn't get along with the superintendent, which no one could and they quit.
Interviewer:
Which superintendent couldn't they get along with?
Lawson:
I can't remember his name, but-
Interviewer:
Okay.
Lawson:
[00:11:00]
[00:11:30]
He was, I don't blame him. He was just an ignorant oaf, that was kind of impressed with his job. He rubber hosed the people and just made it miserable. Made it very disagreeable for the rangers. He always said that he didn't want any help. He said that he could make a ranger do the laborer's work, but he couldn't make the laborer do the ranger's work. For that reason, we didn't have any. Of course, we didn't have any money at the first few years. But after they'd get some and I know one boy came out from, he lives [inaudible 00:11:26], Sergo Furtado. He came down here and he couldn't get along with him at all and he quit. Then another one, what was his name? Evan Stodd. No.
Interviewer:
Evan Stodd?
Lawson:
Evan Stodd. He was a big candidate, but he couldn't get along with him. That was just before I came. Then another man was, came over here and he couldn't get along with him.
[00:12:00]
Interviewer:
But you weren't apprehensive when you first took the job then?
Lawson:
What's that?
Interviewer:
You weren't apprehensive about taking the job?
Lawson:
[00:12:30]
Well, I didn't know when I came down here. I had, the first two superintendents I had, I suppose were the worst they've ever gotten in the park and I remember when I left the Lava Beds to come down here, I was pretty well acquainted. I'd worked the forest there with the forester here. He said, "I'm sorry to tell you, Lawson," but he said, "You're just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire." He said, "You'll find Fin is worse than Fisher." But Fisher was vindictive. I didn't get along at all with him and of course, after I'd been there a year or so, I was as bad as he was.
Interviewer:
In what way?
Lawson:
[00:13:00]
[00:13:30]
Well, right after he got me, he wasn't around when two before me ran those out. So he's all for you, until you got in there and then, I don't know. I think he had an awful inferiority complex and he had his master's in history and he thought that ought to carry him along everywhere and he wasn't getting ahead in the park service. I could see why, but just for the way it went. The first year I was there, at that time three months probationary period and he was talking about how he was going to get me out when three months were up. Well the superintendent of the CC camp-
Interviewer:
Who was that?
Lawson:
His name was Hanes.
Interviewer:
Hanes.
Lawson:
[00:14:00]
Anyhow, he heard that Fisher was going to railroad me out of there when the three months was up. So he went into Marin and got the American Legion there and the American Legion to the lake and the chamber of commerce and a few others, to have a committee come down and [inaudible 00:13:57] me, best to his advantage if I stayed on, so-
Interviewer:
Did that actually happen?
Lawson:
[00:14:30]
[00:15:00]
Yeah, that actually happened and then at the end of the year, when he gave me my rating, he gave an unsatisfactory and then of course, that should mean I was out. But the chief ranger, the Lava Beds under the Crater Lake and the chief ranger up there was over us and he took one look and he said, "Damned if he can give unsatisfactory." He went [inaudible 00:14:28] he'd give him unsatisfactory too, this Fisher. So he brought it up to fair, which was you could only raise it one after that. So I got by and then I came down here, this fellow was here and he said, he never gave him more than fair. So I had unsatisfactory and fair for about five years and last time when I came out, everything was excellent. I know I was a hell of a lot better management when I came in, than I was when I went out. I wasn't burnt out and mad then. But-
Interviewer:
So was the CCC camp running at the time that you arrived here?
Lawson:
No, they had, the CC camp in the Lava Beds was.
Interviewer:
Oh, it was, uh-huh.
Lawson:
Yeah, but the one down here, there was no CC in here and I think WPA, or PWA.
Interviewer:
PWA.
[00:15:30]
Lawson:
They worked a lot in here and I'm just getting my notes together to write the history of the May Woods, from the time I came, to when I retired.
Interviewer:
If you had to pick one event that occurred while you were here, that you would want to contribute say, to overall history of the region, not just of this area, but of the region, what would that be?
Lawson:
Oh, I guess the big turn out is when we got the railroad. I wasn't here then, but-
Interviewer:
No, but while you were here, was there anything in particular that you felt was historically-
[00:16:00]
Lawson:
For the good of the monument, you mean?
Interviewer:
Well, for the whole area, yeah. Not just the monument, but the region.
Lawson:
Oh no question. Taking out the picnicking in woods. It should have been taken out years before, but-
Interviewer:
It was picnicking when you first came here?
Lawson:
[00:16:30]
Oh yeah, yeah. Picnicking. I think they'd taken the camp out the year before, but the picnicking was, every fair place in the, wherever there's a flat place in Muir Woods, was a picnic table. They had some place in here, for pictures. Painted by a Mrs. Finn, who was pretty good, amateur artist. I have one at home. A picture of the redwoods. You see in that, that the ground is absolutely bare. But getting the picnicking out was-
Interviewer:
Was that difficult?
Lawson:
No. We tried to get, everyone knew it should be out, but they were also afraid there'd be too much criticism in 1953.
[00:17:00]
Interviewer:
That was when they stopped it?
Lawson:
[00:17:30]
1953, yeah. One Sunday, I remember, we took so many cars that picnicked. They're taking up all the parking space. They stayed all day and you had to turn so many people away and so many just begged you to see a redwood, that you couldn't do it with two miles of cars stacked up behind you. The next morning, I said to my assistant, "Let's take them out." We came up, the superintendent there was [inaudible 00:17:29]. He was a very capable man, but he was going to retire.
Interviewer:
What was his name?
Lawson:
His name was Gibbs.
Interviewer:
Gibbs, uh-huh.
Lawson:
He was a very capable man, but he wasn't interested in Muir Woods. Wasn't interested in the people. He was going to retire and nothing was interesting. The only thing that was interesting to him, was it cost a thing. He would go over all the invoices. He could tell you every screwdriver and hammer that'd been purchased for Muir Woods. [inaudible 00:17:52].
Interviewer:
So did you, what did you do? Dismantle all the picnic tables, or-
[00:18:00]
Lawson:
Yeah, we went up and said, well I think I said, " Sometime, we'll go down and take out the picnic," we'd been talking about it. I said something about go down and take out the picnic tables. He said, "Go ahead, if this is everything you propose. Go ahead." Which he did, but he wanted to see lots of it. So I thought we needed to, so we got the old truck and started hauling out picnic tables and we had the darnedest mess of picnic tables down by the lower parking area.
Interviewer:
How many total did you have, do you think?
Lawson:
I don't know.
Interviewer:
20, 40?
[00:18:30]
Lawson:
[00:19:00]
I don't know. There must have been, they went up even with the restroom out here. All out in that on the side hill and every flat place. Some were very good tables, some I took out, up across the restroom were put in, in 1922, because one of the men, I didn't know him then. I knew his brother. His brother worked as a forester here years ago. But he had written his name and the date on the underside of one of the tables.
Interviewer:
So one of the tables had been there since 1922.
Lawson:
Yeah and it was, not very good. But most tables were big [inaudible 00:19:11], we put them in there. They were damn big tables. Some with six legs and-
Interviewer:
How far up the stream? All the way to the 4th bridge, or-
Lawson:
Well you know where the Andrew Jake cross?
Interviewer:
Mm-hmm. Across the Mora?
[00:19:30]
Lawson:
Yeah. Three tables there, but of course that's in the state park and we didn't take care of them. But they were up to there. I think that was the last table we had, as far as you could get the cars. But after we got the tables out, we just put a sign, "No picnicking" and there wasn't any criticism. People would say, "Can't we picnic here anymore?" You explained it and no one criticized it.
Interviewer:
When you first got here, was the Muir Woods Road a toll road, or was it open?
Lawson:
[00:20:00]
No, it wasn't a toll road. No toll had been on there for a while. I don't know how long. I haven't got much information on that toll road.
Interviewer:
The parking lot, was it just the main parking lot, or was there-
Lawson:
Just this upper parking lot and down at the second upper parking lot, but that one wasn't paved or anything.
Interviewer:
Where our annex lot is now?
Lawson:
No, not way down, but-
Interviewer:
But where the bus zone is?
Lawson:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Yeah, uh-huh.
Lawson:
We cleared that out and-
Interviewer:
What year was that?
[00:20:30]
Lawson:
Well, they could park there, but we got it straightened out. I've forgotten, it was in the '40s sometime.
Interviewer:
In the '40s, okay.
Lawson:
But 1956, we had this superintendent here, he was a dynamo for work. He-
Interviewer:
Who was that?
Lawson:
Oh, Mahoney.
Interviewer:
Uh-huh. Mahoney.
Lawson:
[00:21:00]
He got more work done and he paid less attention to the regulations. Some of the things were very dubious, but he got them done. For instance, we were building the step stones, the ones going out the other side, of course the rangers-
Interviewer:
Steps going out the other side?
Lawson:
Off the patio.
Interviewer:
Oh off the patio here. Uh-huh.
Lawson:
[00:21:30]
Yeah and that he and Sitten put that in, [inaudible 00:21:15] uniform and they needed lumber for the loft in the garage up there, where I guess that got made into a parking now. You wouldn't believe how we got that, because they didn't have any money for it.
Interviewer:
How did you get that?
Lawson:
That was when we took the log bridges out. He sold the logs for it.
Interviewer:
Oh, they sold off the log bridges and the money for that went into the lumber-
Lawson:
He sold the logs. The government didn't have anything to do with that. They didn't miss whether they were gone.
Interviewer:
I see. So the money from that lumber went to building the loft?
Lawson:
Yeah, it paid for the lumber that did that and some other lumber, I think for the [inaudible 00:21:52]. During his regime, we opened up the annex parking lot, of course it wasn't paved then.
[00:22:00]
Interviewer:
What did it look like before it was opened up? Was it open?
Lawson:
Well it was just kind of a meadow down through there.
Interviewer:
There was a meadow. Was there anything else there before you put the annex lot in?
Lawson:
No.
Interviewer:
Anything at all?
Lawson:
[00:22:30]
No. But at first, we moved some picnic tables down there previously, that I remember. We went up to the deer park, there's a very well built restroom up there. [inaudible 00:22:20] and [inaudible 00:22:25] took the truck, the dump truck and ran it up there and put the toilet on it and dug a hole down in the lower place there and dropped it down there. But after we got the lower one in, we had it kind of lined out, we got a bunch of logs and lined it out, bumper logs and it was pretty crude parking space.
Interviewer:
Can you tell me about when you were digging the post holes and you found the projectile point? What were you doing? Putting in fences, or what?
[00:23:00]
Lawson:
I'm just trying to, I don't remember. I don't remember what we were doing, digging for a sign, or just what it was.
Interviewer:
Mm-hmm and exactly where was it again?
Lawson:
It was right down, near as I can remember now, change has happened since then. You know where the trail branches off to go down to the creek and up to the Dipsea Trail?
Interviewer:
To the Dipsea, uh-huh.
Lawson:
Right about the head of that, as far as I can tell.
Interviewer:
On the flat area?
Lawson:
Yeah, well it was kind of on the side hill, a little slope there, but Furtado found it. We were working down there and he found it.
Interviewer:
How deep down was it again?
[00:23:30]
Lawson:
As far as I remember, it was about 18 inches. It must have been there a long time. But this parking area right here, that must be quite a fill there, because when they were grading it, I mean it was before I left here, but they were beginning to make a decent looking parking area out of it.
Interviewer:
This upper parking area?
Lawson:
Yeah. But on the left hand side, it was all a bog there. [inaudible 00:23:54], you'd sink down there.
[00:24:00]
Interviewer:
Close to where the bathrooms are today, it was boggy?
Lawson:
No, up right against the bank.
Interviewer:
Oh, right against the bank, uh-huh.
Lawson:
[00:24:30]
Yeah, there was a spring in there. So we had to dig a big trench down there, as I remember about 10 feet deep and over to the creek to bring that out and that was all fill in there, in the bottom of that trench. I know we got a chunk of old redwood out of there. I made a key, [inaudible 00:24:26] I think of that. I don't remember whether it was that piece I made the keyholder [inaudible 00:24:34] and the flower pot with that down here. But it'd been filled in. I don't know. It'd have been interesting to know what it looked like before that.
Interviewer:
Mm-hmm. Mostly fill though?
Lawson:
That was all filled, yeah.
Interviewer:
I was speaking with Dick Hardin and he mentioned that there was a historic dump underneath the bus zone parking lot and I was wondering if you ever remember seeing bottles or glass in that area?
[00:25:00]
Lawson:
No. There was a dump up, you know where the Alice Eastwood Trail branches off?
Interviewer:
Right.
Lawson:
Well just between the two of the main trail and that, there's a dump there and right above is a flat place, one of the ends of there. I don't know whether the train, I think the train came down to about there and [inaudible 00:25:17]. But it went down there and there was a septic tank there and we moved that septic tank to put the garbage in. We burned the garbage there, had an incinerator up here and burned the garbage up there.
[00:25:30]
Interviewer:
From the woods. You burned the garbage from the woods up there?
Lawson:
Yeah, yeah. Had a couple that went to burn it and during the [inaudible 00:25:37] season. The bottom one doesn't burn very readily and we burned that and then the cans and bottles, we had a great big tamper, I wonder what became of that. I imagine it weighed 15-20 pounds.
Interviewer:
A hamper?
Lawson:
[00:26:00]
Yeah, a big piece of iron on an iron rod. We'd rake the cans out of the incinerator and it had a big piece of iron and rake them up into that and smash them with that. We put them in that for a long time and where the garbage dump was.
I began to cut out pieces and bring them over and that seemed to go over pretty big. [inaudible 00:26:24], look like I'm going to whelp. People seemed to enjoy them.
[00:26:30]
Interviewer:
Yeah, they do like them. It's real distinctive. Whenever I see these, I recognize them as yours.
Lawson:
Well it's a good way to make friends for the country. They'll say [inaudible 00:26:43].
Interviewer:
[00:27:00]
Okay, I want to ask you about something that happened while you were here. If there was one time when you thought that you yourself really made the difference to the monument itself and being able to keep it running and keep it open, when would that be?
Lawson:
That I can keep it open? Oh, I think it would have stayed open in spite of me. Some of the times I hurried it up a little bit-
Interviewer:
Think so?
Lawson:
Hurry them up a little bit, but I know one time, right up behind here, there's a big slide came down this canyon around up here.
[00:27:30]
Interviewer:
The one behind Glen's house, or up behind the shop there?
Lawson:
No, it's this one right here.
Interviewer:
Oh, this one right here behind [inaudible 00:27:37].
Lawson:
[00:28:00]
Yeah and it broke loose, just about where the old road came down across. Oh, there was tons and tons of stuff came down. Came rushing down. It got almost to here, but we had some logs along there, some bumper logs and it turned just enough and went down the road and it covered the parking lot. I guess two and a half feet deep and tapered out about to where the first parking lot ends.
Interviewer:
Was this the wintertime?
Lawson:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Did that happen every winter?
Lawson:
[00:28:30]
No, no. No, just only that time, but [inaudible 00:28:14] times since I was here. But that time, if those bumper logs hadn't have been there, they'd gone right through, because mud and water have a lot of force behind them. We had a heck of a time getting rid of that stuff.
Interviewer:
Did you have to move it out by hand?
Lawson:
Well, we started in by hand, but we weren't getting any place and I remember we got a bulldozer and then we had to wash it down. Didn't have enough water. That was one of those big [inaudible 00:28:48] and they came here is, lack of water.
Interviewer:
Lack of water.
Lawson:
[00:29:00]
Yeah, we had a three-quarter inch pipe, came down from the tourist club, down to the canyon. It emptied about the third bridge, that canyon and at the head of that, they had two, I think it was a 3,000 gallon tank, a big tank.
Interviewer:
Near the tourist club?
Lawson:
Well, it was up in that canyon, but not, it was below the trail, but up right close to the trail and-
Interviewer:
Were they redwood tanks?
Lawson:
Yeah, they were redwood tanks. They said they got them from some bootlegger, or-
[00:29:30]
Interviewer:
They reused them, huh?
Lawson:
Yeah, they'd been used and oh, they were a mess. That three-quarter inch pipe went into those and then for some reason, I think there was a three inch pipe came down that canyon to connect with the pipe here. That was our water supply and they were always breaking, or somebody was letting the water out of the tanks and every time you opened them up, there was a careless salamander, or a mouse, or something floating in the tank.
[00:30:00]
Interviewer:
Now at that time, did you have to test the water, or-
Lawson:
No. We never tested.
Interviewer:
You never tested?
Lawson:
[00:30:30]
No, we didn't test the water. [inaudible 00:30:09]. Lots of times, you're out of water and Chris [inaudible 00:30:22] and the ranger here with me, he was Hewie Ropeman. He would come and work, while I'd stay down here and take care of the people. I tell you, [inaudible 00:30:31] restroom with [inaudible 00:30:35] they get in were the problem.
Interviewer:
I can imagine. So water was a big problem and erosion.
Lawson:
What's that?
Interviewer:
Erosion. The mud slides and the banks eroding.
Lawson:
Well they came down, there's a big shoulder up there, there's a big gully, or a big wash out. I suppose you can still see it. I haven't been up there, or came back, but.
Interviewer:
While you working here, your favorite visitor. Do you remember your favorite visitor?
[00:31:00]
Lawson:
Yeah. Two of them. My outstanding. One was Jan Christian Smuts, South Africa, another one Helen Keller.
Interviewer:
Helen Keller, wonderful.
Lawson:
[00:31:30]
Of course, I had the opportunity to meet both of those, with Helen Keller, all one afternoon and with Jan Christian Smuts. He used to come here. He was chairman of the... I can't think of the, oh hell. Anyhow, the United Nations over here and I met him first when they had the meeting up here. He was chairman for the meeting and all of that.
Interviewer:
For the United Nations ceremony?
Lawson:
[00:32:00]
Yeah. The United Nations. Then he must have been in most, spent all of his spare time over here after that. He would come over here and he was the most brilliant man I've ever been around, but he seemed to, anything you bring out, he was authority on. He'd go up to the woods and he'd see different trees, different plants. He'd take a look at them, look over and give you the scientific name of them, although he'd never seen them before.
Interviewer:
So he visited several times?
[00:32:30]
Lawson:
Oh yes. He came over quite frequently. The only trouble with him, he had those big long legs and gosh, he'd have me panting like a lizard, following him. I couldn't take any more of asking him questions. He'd almost stop and he had a bamboo swagger stick and he'd tap me on the shoulder and explain it. I'd get my wind.
Interviewer:
What was Helen Keller like?
[00:33:00]
Lawson:
[00:33:30]
Well, it's pretty hard to describe her. Maybe sometime I'll let you in my, I have a [inaudible 00:33:01], I described in there. But it's hard to believe. After you've seen her a short time, you'd never know you were talking to a second person. You'd think you're talking right directly to her and you have to give an awful lot to her companion or aide, because she was wonderful in translating what you had said to her. You'd never see them [inaudible 00:33:28] holding each other's hands and they conversed that way and she'd ask questions and I'd answer them. Only times seemed to be a little confused, was when where the tree in Cathedral Grove, I told you that was a big hollow tree, the walk through tree. Well when she got in there and walked around in the inside, she was a little bit confused there for a while, so we explained to her.
Interviewer:
Now is that walk through tree. That's the one that eventually fell to the ground there, in Cathedral Grove?
Lawson:
Yeah, half of it did. Yeah.
[00:34:00]
Interviewer:
When did that happen? Was that fairly recently?
Lawson:
Sometime after I retired and before I came back.
Interviewer:
People remember that walk through tree a lot.
Lawson:
Yeah, that was quite a thrill to, especially kids-
Interviewer:
People remember that and what other places in the woods do people always want to go back to, do you recall, from when you worked here?
Lawson:
Well I think the walk through tree and a lot of them came to want to go to Bohemian Grove and lots of them wanted to see the albino redwood.
Interviewer:
The albino redwood. Now which one is that though?
[00:34:30]
Lawson:
The only one, up there. You know where it is.
Interviewer:
I think so. You want to describe approximately where it is?
Lawson:
[00:35:00]
[00:35:30]
You know where the stone bridge is. The only stone bridge, where just about, oh, I guess 50 yards, not 50 yards. Less than 50 yards, on the right hand side, there's a group of redwoods in there and coming out of that group is one tree about the size of your wrist maybe, just a sprout coming out about eight feet high and it just looks like it needs a shot of B1. It's kind of sickly yellow leaves and it's not very spectacular, but if everyone's theory is right, the water and the mineral has to go through the roots, up through the tree, to the leaves for photosynthesis and then it has to come down. I suppose to form a glucose through them and put on their [inaudible 00:35:31]. It's something that can't be done, but it does it. But it's very interesting botanically, but they used to have a sign by it, but every botanical class that would go by, they want to take a sample and it didn't stand much sampling.
Interviewer:
Did you have problems with people taking things from the woods?
Lawson:
They used to take it when they were picnicking in here. But just-
[00:36:00]
Interviewer:
Any plants in particular they always used to take, or?
Lawson:
What's that?
Interviewer:
Any plants in particular they would try and collect?
Lawson:
[00:36:30]
Lots of times they wanted to dig out the trillium and small ferns. Oh the five-fingered fern. That was a trophy and it was only, I think when I came back, there was only two or three of them left. There used to be a nice bank of them up on, we called it the water line canyon, the one that went up the tanks and on the side of that. I haven't been up, been back. But there used to be a nice bunch of them along the edge of that. That was one of the projects that I had planned on doing was, put five-fingered fern all along the creek. I knew where I could get them and up in-
Interviewer:
Did you do that, did you transplant them?
[00:37:00]
Lawson:
[00:37:30]
No, I left there. I don't think there's been anything planted since them. But yes, I take that back. Oh McLaughlin was superintendent then. He was a great worker. Not Mahoney, but McLaughlin. McLaughlin. He was a great worker. Then my maintenance man, Carl Stevenson. He planted all the ferns in Bohemian Grove. He took a very vital interest in that, but gosh, he'd do all his work and half of mine. He was, I showed Ms. Tamplais that they're here. When they put in the water line and the sewer line, I was inspector there.
Interviewer:
The water line through the woods you mean?
Lawson:
[00:38:00]
[00:38:30]
Yeah, no. The water line, well the water line coming down the hill and the sewer line going down. I didn't know anything about it. He said, "Brainerd, come over here." He said, "You see that joint down there? That pipe is, the connection's only set in there about a quarter of an inch. That should go in there three-quarter of an inch. You see how much is exposed." He said, "An easter or quaker, that thing is libel to snap off or snap out." So I beat my chest and roared, but I told the foreman, "We got to get those things in. Dammit, if you find another one of those, then they want to tap the job on you [inaudible 00:38:29]. That pipe goes along, it sways a little in the center. Stuff libel to collect in there and stop up." So again, I beat my chest and started roaring. I got the reputation of being a very strict inspector. Bill Thornton came over to inspect himself and [inaudible 00:38:43] than I did. I don't know what the situation had been, if it hadn't been for Carl here.
Interviewer:
Did you have any, did you feel any earthquakes in the woods when you were here?
[00:39:00]
Lawson:
We had one earthquake. I was crossing one of the log bridges and I began to feel something. God, am I sick on my stomach, or what the heck? I just kind of was feeling something like seasickness, only not that way. So I got off the bridge and got ready to upchuck, or whatever my body was going to do and it didn't do anything. I found out there'd been an earthquake that time.
Interviewer:
What year was that?
Lawson:
I don't know.
Interviewer:
But it was after you got here.
Lawson:
No, it was after I retired.
Interviewer:
Oh, it was after you retired.
[00:39:30]
Lawson:
No, I mean before I retired.
Interviewer:
But it was when you were crossing the third bridge?
Lawson:
No, well see the second bridge, which is up... Let's see. Up by about where the, across from Salmon Circle, the bridge there.
Interviewer:
Salmon Circle and where was that?
Lawson:
[00:40:00]
Oh, do you know where the circle is there that they have the sign up that tells about the reproduction. Right across from that, about where that trail goes out to the weather station. Incidentally, that's a dam. That trail should be taken out.
Interviewer:
Oh the circles?
Lawson:
No, the trail, the slabs that go out to...
Interviewer:
They're going to be taken out pretty soon. I think we're going to end for today.
Lawson:
Okay.
Interviewer:
Thanks, Lawson.
Interviewer:
Lawson Brainerd interview number two, September 9th, 1988.
[00:00:30]
I wanted to ask you about the Dipsea Trail. I know that the race was run for many years before you ever came to the park. How many years did you spend at the park? From 1930-?
Lawson:
1942 until 1965.
Interviewer:
1942 to 1965. And your capacity changed, right? Or were you always-?
Lawson:
I was ranger, and then eventually they called me chief ranger, supervisor ranger.
Interviewer:
Do you remember a lot of Dipseas?
Lawson:
Well, I used to watch them run by there.
[00:01:00]
Interviewer:
Did you ever do anything to the trail before a race?
Lawson:
Well, about the only thing I did was... It used to cross the bridge right at the parking area there, and I would keep the poison oak cut back away from it. And I don't know whether they cross there now or whether they go down to the bridge.
Interviewer:
They still cross there.
Lawson:
[00:01:30]
At that time, there was the bridge across, and a tree. I don't think... That wasn't pulled across. Probably much bigger. But sapwood was all gone, just the hardwood. And on the far end, it was only about that big around. Really was dangerous for people to go across.
Interviewer:
And that was where the trail crossed? Or that-?
Lawson:
[00:02:00]
That's where the original trail crossed was by the concession down there and up the hill, next to the road up above. And as I remember, that was the main trail, but now it's been... Well, that bridge... Fact is, the superintendent and I took the darn thing out because it was dangerous and... Oh, we got hell. No chance in hell, then... And then they built several bridges across there, but they didn't put them far enough up on the bank and they washed out.
Interviewer:
How about up above on the Dipsea, past where the Bickerstaffs were? The trail ran around the Bickerstaff place, up the hill.
Lawson:
Yeah.
[00:02:30]
Interviewer:
Okay, and was there any change in that route at all? They always went around the Bickerstaff place and up the hill.
Lawson:
Well, when they used to run, they used to come right down... Sometimes, most all just came this side of the old concession, down there, straight across, not-
Interviewer:
Right straight down the hill from there. So through the area where Mia's house is now?
Lawson:
[00:03:00]
Well yeah, right around where the... Just most of them came just to the right of that. Then they'd come down to... There wasn't a lower parking area in there, then, and they'd come right straight down.
Interviewer:
How about the upper part of the Dipsea, from our Muir Woods National Monument up? Did they ever change that route, or do you remember?
Lawson:
I don't... They went up to, if you know where the redwoods are up on the-
Interviewer:
Highway?
Lawson:
The last redwoods as you get up there, they branched off there and went over the top.
Interviewer:
Okay. Okay. That's still the same route they have today. Yeah.
Lawson:
I think so.
[00:03:30]
Interviewer:
Okay. Anything else you can recall about the race being run, while you were here? It would help.
Lawson:
No, I don't. I watched them go by two or three times, but I don't know too much about it.
Interviewer:
How about the old Inn? I have some questions on the old Inn that the maintenance staff uses now. Now, has that building been changed a lot? And how do you remember it?
Lawson:
[00:04:00]
It was built on... I think that was the old Joe's Place, they called it years ago. And when I came here, Jack Chalette, the fellow had this place here, I think his mother owned it.
Interviewer:
Was his mother still alive?
Lawson:
His mother was alive then. I remember she had it for sale for $5,000, that piece of land.
Interviewer:
Why did she want to sell it?
Lawson:
I don't know.
Interviewer:
Was she a widow at the time?
Lawson:
I don't remember her husband. They had a brother that he was in trouble a good deal of the time.
Interviewer:
Oh, really?
[00:04:30]
Lawson:
Jack's brother. I don't know if you want that for the record, but he was in trouble quite a bit. And then I think 1959, I'm not quite sure the date, but Jack came back and he was married to Gloria and they ran it for a while.
Interviewer:
Can you tell me anything about the type of place it was when they were running it?
[00:05:00]
Lawson:
Well, it looked a good deal like it does now. They sold a few souvenirs. They served light refreshments and beer.
Interviewer:
So they did have alcohol.
Lawson:
Yeah. They had beer there. I don't think they had any other alcohol. I know one of the boys here used to go down and eat there all the time.
Interviewer:
One of the rangers here at Muir Woods?
Lawson:
Yeah. Oh... Voltz.
Interviewer:
Voltz.
[00:05:30]
Lawson:
And I imagine he was the brightest man in the Park Service, and also the laziest.
Interviewer:
You mentioned that before.
Lawson:
[00:06:00]
Yeah, I must call him up. They moved to Vermont from here. I call him up, we call each other about twice a year, send a letter. But when I first came here, they had just kind of a rinky-dink place down there, of sorts. And then I suppose that Jack owning that land then, this is just my guess, gave him leverage on getting this up here.
Interviewer:
And how much land was it about, with the old Inn sitting on it? Was it-?
Lawson:
I don't know, but they could just... He owned it. There were a couple others, an old German just below him that had the piece, and had a house there. And just the one house below him.
Interviewer:
Where was that? Oh, where Bickerstaffs was? Or below that?
Lawson:
I don't know just where Bickerstaffs was.
[00:06:30]
Interviewer:
But by the German, you mean somebody who owned a parcel next to-?
Lawson:
Yes. There's an old German owned the house there. He had a few orange trees, fruit trees.
Interviewer:
Uh-huh. Was that down toward the cement bridge? What we have down here now, a cement bridge that crosses the road?
Lawson:
Yeah. But just, it's rather adjacent to it, right close to it there.
Interviewer:
Oh, but not across the street.
Lawson:
No.
Interviewer:
Okay. Close to it.
[00:07:00]
Lawson:
And let's see, about 1956, we got the... Well, the parking's always been a bottleneck, and the superintendent and the other ranger and I put in the parking area, the lower one down there. Pretty primitive at that time.
Interviewer:
[00:07:30]
I want to show you these photographs. These are historic photographs of the area we're talking about. This one is July 1931, at the turn. And you can see a little bit, I think, of the old Inn there. Now here, this is July 1940. It doesn't look like the old Inn is there unless that's it. Or is that Bickerstaff's house? That's okay. Don't worry about that. It looks like a dark building with white trim.
[00:08:00]
Lawson:
That's up from this side of... I mean, these cars, this side of them. That's the same building, isn't it?
Interviewer:
Hard to tell. This one's cut off, see. This one looks closer to the road. This looks like the old Inn.
Lawson:
Yeah. I think that's the old Inn right there.
[00:08:30]
Interviewer:
But I'm not sure if that's the same building or not. Now, you were mentioning the German fellow who owned the property. Would his land have been down here?
Lawson:
Mm-hmm. Just below it. Right adjacent to it.
Interviewer:
Because his fruit trees are still there. Now, this is the meadow where the leach field is now, during a convention in '55. Do you happen to remember that group of buses camped out there like that?
Lawson:
What convention would that be?
Interviewer:
That was the Lutheran Convention. You had 152 buses and 6,000 delegates.
[00:09:00]
Lawson:
Yeah, I remember that one.
Interviewer:
Okay. And they all circled up.
Lawson:
They picnic in that-
Interviewer:
Uh-huh. Now this area where the meadow is, that's the leach field today?
Lawson:
Yeah, this upper end of it is the parking area.
Interviewer:
Okay. And it all used to be flat and grassy like that from one end to the other?
Lawson:
[00:09:30]
The lower end was pretty flat, just about like it was now. When we put the parking area in, it was very primitive. We just cut out and laid some logs, bumper logs along.
Interviewer:
What kind of trees did you cut out mostly?
Lawson:
I was afraid you'd ask that.
Interviewer:
That's okay. I don't mind.
Lawson:
I think the state park took trees that needed thinning.
Interviewer:
So it was mostly conifers or hardwoods?
Lawson:
Conifers.
Interviewer:
Conifers. Okay. And did the wood get used, though?
Lawson:
Well, it was used for bumper logs. And it was very primitive. And through the years it was improved more and more.
Interviewer:
So it was dirt first.
Lawson:
Yeah. Dirt first.
[00:10:00]
Interviewer:
And you really needed that.
Lawson:
[00:10:30]
Yeah, but it filled up awful fast. I mean, we never had enough parking area. Of course, they have 10,000 cars and 10,000 people in here a day. But you know and I know that when you have 3,500 people in here, the parking area's full, and it's full up the road as far as they can walk and halfway to Muir Beach. So how the hell you going to get 10,000 in?
Interviewer:
Now, that coastal trail to Muir Beach, is that as old as the Dipsea Trail? You know the one that goes on this side of the road, down the drainage?
Lawson:
I imagine so. I don't know the history of that one, but there was a trail that went parallel the crick, up in the hill, about 50 yards up in the hill.
Interviewer:
On the far side?
[00:11:00]
Lawson:
Yeah. And they did a lot of work on that. Why they built it, I don't know. There must have been a trail along the crick.
Interviewer:
Now, when was that one put in?
Lawson:
I don't know-
Interviewer:
Before you got here, though.
Lawson:
Yeah, it was all overgrown when-
Interviewer:
Okay. Well, this tree is still here, this Buckeye right here, still in the leach field.
Lawson:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
[00:11:30]
It's huge now. So it does look real flat, but I still can't figure out if that's the old Inn or not. If it is, then there's been a lot of changes. But I looked inside the old Inn, and what interests me inside the old Inn is it's mostly redwood, and it looked like they had a bar in it. So that's why I asked you about alcohol. Did they have a place for seating inside?
Lawson:
Yeah, they had a seat.
Interviewer:
Okay. And how about outside? What did the outside look like?
Lawson:
As I remember, there was kind of a deck out there.
Interviewer:
Flagstone or wood?
Lawson:
Wood. It was raised up on the slope. It was raised up.
[00:12:00]
Interviewer:
And how did people get up there? Was there a way of getting out to the deck from the outside of the building? Or they had to go inside?
Lawson:
You could go up around the far end and come in. Yeah, they could go up, and as I remember, there were steps right in the front.
Interviewer:
Okay. Okay. And did they stay open late at night?
Lawson:
I think so. I don't know.
Interviewer:
Don't remember. Okay.
[00:12:30]
Lawson:
[00:13:00]
But I've been trying to try to figure out, and unfortunately I didn't, where the old trains used to stop, coming down. Of course, most of that's in state line now. But where the Alice Eastwood Trail branches off, about 100 yards up there, is the flat place that apparently some building was there. And right on the left-hand side of the Alice Eastwood Road, about the same distance up, there apparently was a garbage dump there. And we dumped our garbage there for years.
Interviewer:
Really? From the woods?
Lawson:
Yeah. We'd burn it first, and then had a great big, heavy stamper that would crush the cans. And they'd put them in there.
Interviewer:
And how would you cart it up there? By vehicle?
Lawson:
[00:13:30]
Yeah, by vehicle. The incinerator was up here by the garage. We'd bring the stuff down in the truck, and get a good fire going in there, and then put it in there and burn it.
Interviewer:
And then crush the metal?
Lawson:
Then crush the metal and bottles.
Interviewer:
And then add it to the dump. And this is the dump above where the old Inn was?
Lawson:
No, this was up where the Alice Eastwood Trail goes up, probably 100 yards up there, on the right side. There had been a building there, it's a flat place.
Interviewer:
Right. I've seen it.
Lawson:
And this was the-
Interviewer:
It's where the road turns?
Lawson:
No, not that far up.
Interviewer:
Oh, not that far up.
[00:14:00]
Lawson:
I think there were two stations there.
Interviewer:
Oh, I see.
Lawson:
And I got one of the Bickerstaff boys, asked if he knew, but they weren't sure. He said he'd come over and show me. And so I brought him over one day, and went up the hill. He didn't know where they were.
Interviewer:
Which Bickerstaff was that? Wasn't Joe, was it?
Lawson:
[00:14:30]
[00:15:00]
Joe? No, I think it's another one. I forgot what the name was. There was several boys. One of two boys. He didn't know. He couldn't find it. But we had pictures of them, but trees grow. I had all of the corners of the monument. The superintendent and I, we had a transit, and we located all the corners of the monument. And one of them was right close to where the Ben Johnson Trail takes off. On the right-hand side there's a kind of cleared place there. I looked there several times. They couldn't find... It's a pipe about that high, in the grass.
Interviewer:
I think it's still there. I think the cap's gone, but the pipe's still there.
Lawson:
It is?
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Lawson:
And then there's one, the only one I couldn't find, is it goes across the crick, and looked like about 50 yards the other side of the crick, there was the bend there. But I never found that one. I didn't find that one. But I found all the rest of them. Right.
[00:15:30]
Interviewer:
I'm curious about Frank's Valley. Who was Frank?
Lawson:
I don't know.
Interviewer:
Don't know.
Lawson:
No.
Interviewer:
And I'm also curious about the toll road. Was Frank's Valley Road a toll road? Or was Panoramic Highway a toll road?
Lawson:
I think that the road that came down here, Frank's Valley, was the toll road.
Interviewer:
And where was the toll taken?
[00:16:00]
Lawson:
I believe right where those trees are. It looked like it had a chain across someplace there. It did years ago.
Interviewer:
Do you remember that? Do you remember driving down the road and seeing that?
Lawson:
Well, I stopped there and tried to locate things.
Interviewer:
You did.
Lawson:
I can't see a flat place for a house there.
Interviewer:
I can't either.
Lawson:
[00:16:30]
And then they had a chain, I've been told, right up near the summit, that they had a tollhouse there. Now, I can't make a connection, and no one seems to have any definite proof of it. I tried to find out from the Historical Society here in Mill Valley. They didn't seem to have any information on it.
Interviewer:
Did you have any idea how much they charged to come down Frank's Valley? And you know the way Frank's Valley Road is now, with all the winds?
Lawson:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
It hasn't changed very much.
Lawson:
I don't even know.
Interviewer:
As far as I can tell. Do you ever remember them changing Frank's Valley Road while you were working here?
[00:17:00]
Lawson:
Mm-mm. They put in a new bridge down where you used to have a big culvert there, a big-
Interviewer:
Oh, over our stream? Over Redwood Creek?
Lawson:
Yeah. Down maybe two or three miles, two and a half miles down. We had that big culvert there.
Interviewer:
When did they put the bridge in?
Lawson:
I think right shortly after I came, it got all clogged up when they had the big rain.
Interviewer:
[00:17:30]
How about the ranch down the road where the State Park Rangers live now, called the Diaz Ranch? Do you ever remember any neighbors in the area?
Lawson:
Yeah, I knew the Diaz. They owned all the stuff just adjacent to the Dipsea Trail.
Interviewer:
Did they graze cattle up there?
Lawson:
They had cattle. Yeah. And we used to have feuding with them a good deal of the time. The cattle would get in the Monument there.
Interviewer:
How many head did they have on the ranch?
Lawson:
I don't know how many. I remember that one time there was about 25 head came down-
[00:18:00]
Interviewer:
Into the woods?
Lawson:
Mm-hmm. And they were picnicking, then, and we tried to run them the hell out, and got them scared and loco. And they came down the crick, and the people were screaming, and cattle were all over-
Interviewer:
Wow! When did that happen?
Lawson:
[00:18:30]
Oh, that must have been in the late '40s, around there. But they used to be a darn nuisance there. They had picnic tables down where the Dipsea Trail goes now, down through those trees there. And of course the cows used to get up among them and-
Interviewer:
Now, exactly where is this? Up on the hill or down close to the street?
Lawson:
Right down this side of the crick.
Interviewer:
Oh, I see. Sure, in that flat area.
Lawson:
Yeah. And of course, after a bunch of cows been there a while, it's kind of not very dainty.
Interviewer:
Yeah. So you knew the Diaz. And the German gentleman who owned the property, you can't remember his name, can you?
[00:19:00]
Lawson:
I don't remember his name. I know I was kind of provoked with him. There used to be lots of raccoons here, and they were a damn nuisance, but I liked them around. And he poisoned a whole bunch of them.
Interviewer:
For what reason? Were they getting into something?
Lawson:
Oh, they were getting into his chicken coop, and one thing and another.
Interviewer:
So he had chickens and he had fruit trees.
Lawson:
I think had a few chickens. And I don't think he had any other animals. But anyhow, they'd get in his hair too much.
[00:19:30]
Interviewer:
Now, our Conlon Avenue now, where we have the dirt road with the gate across it. Where we go up to take the weather, we drive up Conlon Avenue, which is the road that's just across from the leach field, that little dirt road.
Lawson:
It goes up the canyon there.
Interviewer:
Yeah. Do you remember any people specifically, while you were working here, that were living in that canyon?
Lawson:
[00:20:00]
Oh, yes. Gosh, I can't remember the name of the fellow. He used to be up here all the time. He was kind of pretty capable. He was, oh, probably 10 years older than I was. And he used to have a bunch of children, used to go up there, had several camps, different kind.
Interviewer:
Summer camps?
Lawson:
Yeah. And he was talking to a group over there, there's a bridge up or maybe... I forgot just how far, maybe we'll say half a mile. And he was leaning against the rail and it broke, and he fell over backward and killed himself.
[00:20:30]
Interviewer:
Oh my gosh. And was he the owner of one of these camps?
Lawson:
No, he owned some land up there, and a house. And I don't know what the status of it is now. I suppose the state or, I mean, the Park Service probably bought most of them, now.
Interviewer:
Were any of them church camps? Do you know?
Lawson:
[00:21:00]
They had one up there. I don't know who ran the camp. I think a different organization would go up there, and they would stay up there for two or three days or whatever. And I know they used to come up here and I'd take them through the woods and-
Interviewer:
Children or adults?
Lawson:
They were children mostly. I'd take them through the woods. And kind of hazy, my memory of the... I knew quite a few of the people up there. I don't remember their names.
Interviewer:
Well, if you think of them, let me know, because that would be interesting to know that. It was mostly private land in that valley then?
Lawson:
Yeah.
[00:21:30]
Interviewer:
Anything about... Did you see mountain lion or anything in that valley ever, or in Kent Canyon?
Lawson:
No. The only thing that I have authentic, and that's not proven... When I came here, one of the men in the park, that I have confidence in, said they saw a lion track up by Deer Park. And that's the only evidence I have. I've seen lots of people who've seen lions, but I question they... And I have friends that see lions every time they go out, but-
[00:22:00]
Interviewer:
How about that waterfall up in Kent Canyon?
Lawson:
Kent Canyon, you mean the-
Interviewer:
The one where the Diaz ranch goes up. That canyon.
Lawson:
[00:22:30]
Oh, that one. That's one of the big boners that I made. I should have known about it, but I just didn't get down there. And it had a beautiful stand of redwoods up that canyon. And I was coming up the Frank Valley Road, and I noticed redwood bark going out there. And I followed that, and found out they'd logged all that out.
Interviewer:
When was that?
Lawson:
[00:23:00]
Oh, it was before Park Service, when Diaz owned the ranch. And if we could only... If we could stop that, and I think that they could have, but I just didn't know they were doing it. It was just over the hill, and I'd be down to there, if I'd known that. They were wanting to get the timber out before the state bought it. And they did.
Interviewer:
So you think it was Diaz's family that did it?
Lawson:
I imagine they sold the land. I think they did. But that was a beautiful canyon. It wasn't-
Interviewer:
How many redwoods do you think they logged out?
Lawson:
I don't know. There's a beautiful stand of reds. I'd been up there, always up there. When I first came here I went up that, and then over the top.
Interviewer:
There's a trail that does that?
[00:23:30]
Lawson:
No, there wasn't no trail there. I just went. And beautiful stand. I don't remember. They weren't too extensive, but it was beautiful. And the ferns and different things was just-
Interviewer:
Right around the waterfall?
Lawson:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Yeah? Somebody told me that Kent had a hunting lodge up there. William Kent. But that would be real early on.
Lawson:
I don't remember that. Up that canyon?
Interviewer:
Yeah.
Lawson:
I think that'd be a pretty hard place to put it.
[00:24:00]
[inaudible 00:24:03] for the valley. They just, too many roads, and beat him down there. They said they used to take lots of ferns out, the florists did.
Interviewer:
Ferns, especially? Or other plants too?
Lawson:
[00:24:30]
Mostly ferns, I think. I think they got pretty near all of the five-finger ferns along the crick because I know there were just a few left. I don't think there's any left now. But there must have been lots of them along the crick, but they transplant easily. And I got my star, at my place. They were doing some road work up in Mendocino County. We were up there huckleberrying, and they were going to dig out these-
Speaker 3:
I think she want's you to leave because think it would be [inaudible 00:24:47] or something.
