Nicodemus Oral History

INTERVIEW WITH

JACKIE HOPE PRICE

September 15, 2011 – Angela Bates, Interviewer

ANGELA:  This is Angela Bates and today is Thursday, September 15, 2011 and I am here in the Nicodemus Historical Society Offices in the Priscilla Arts Club Building on the town site and I am here to interview Jackie Jones Hope.  Jackie can you say your full name and spell it?

JACKIE:  Okay my name is Jackie or Jacqueline J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E Price is my maiden name, P-R-I-C-E and I am a part of the Jones family J-O-N-E-S and my last name now is Hope H-O-P-E.

ANGELA:  Okay when is your birthday and how old are you?

JACKIE:  9/26/45 and I will be 66 next week.

ANGELA:  Wow!  Are you married, divorced, widowed or single?

JACKIE:  I am divorced.

ANGELA:  Okay so you were married.  What was your husband’s name?

JACKIE:  Let’s see my first husband’s name was Leonard Hope.

ANGELA:  Is he the father of your children then?

JACKIE:  Yes.

ANGELA:  Okay that’s good.

JACKIE:  And we were married 38 years.

ANGELA:  And so your maiden name is?

JACKIE:  Price.

ANGELA:  Okay and when and where were you married?

JACKIE:  I was married in Denver and I was married in 1961.

ANGELA:  How many children do you have?

JACKIE:  Five.

ANGELA:  Five children and their names?

JACKIE:  Steven, Leonard, Lennice, Roosevelt and Tanya.

ANGELA:  And how do you spell Lannice?

JACKIE:  Lennice.

ANGELA:  Okay. Do your children live here?

JACKIE:  Just Tanya.

ANGELA:  And when I say here where do you live?

JACKIE:  I live in Palco, Kansas.

ANGELA:  Do you have any grandchildren?

JACKIE:  I have six and five live here.

ANGELA:  And their names are?

JACKIE:  Dominique, Jordan, Janea, Leonard and Jericha.

ANGELA:  Can you spell Janea?

JACKIE:  Janea. J-A-N-E-A.

ANGELA:  And the last one that you mentioned?

JACKIE:  Jericha?

ANGELA:  Yea, can you spell that please?

JACKIE:  J-E-R-I-C-H-A.

ANGELA:  Okay and who are your parents?

JACKIE:  Margaret Price and Robert Price.

ANGELA:  Okay.  And your grandparents?

JACKIE:   Mamie and Skylar Jones.

ANGELA:  So you come down on the Mamie and Skylar Jones side?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  So that is how you are a descendant?  Okay and any sisters and brothers?

JACKIE:  I have one brother his name is Robert Price.

ANGELA:  Is he still alive and where does he live?

JACKIE:  Yes and he lives in Denver.

ANGELA:  You live in Palco now, so prior to living in Palco where were you ?

JACKIE:  In Denver.

ANGELA:  How long had you lived in Denver then?

JACKIE:  60 some years!

ANGELA:  So when did you move here?

JACKIE:  I moved here three years ago. 

ANGELA:  It’s been three years?  Oh my Lord.  Wow.  So you moved here three years ago.  Why did you decided to move here?

JACKIE:  I thought it would be better for my grand children because I am raising grand children and so it is just easier for them to be in a small rural surroundings than an urban one because there is so much stuff going on out there gangs and that kind of thing and I just want to get them away from that.

ANGELA:  So you chose home huh?

JACKIE:  Yes.

ANGELA:  So you moved three years ago, and you have your grandchildren with you that you are raising?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  Who else in your family is living with you or moved down with you?

JACKIE:  Well Tanya, their mother has moved down and then of course Amos Jackson.

ANGELA:  So you guys all came down at the same time.

JACKIE:  No, we didn’t all come down at the same time.

ANGELA:  Did your daughter come down with you?

JACKIE:  She came down a year and half later.

ANGELA:  Okay.  So you live in Palco.  Why did you choose Palco?

JACKIE:  Well I tried to get in Nicodemus.  There was no lots for sale at the time so you know it was just easier to get into Palco.

ANGELA:  But if you could of found a place here in Nicodemus this is where you would have selected?

JACKIE:  I would have.

ANGELA:  What kind of work do you do?

JACKIE:  Right now I am doing home health and I have done home health.  I took care of millionaires.  I ran their household and what have you.  Also I taught in public school and I was a day care supervisor.  I went into the homes and taught daycare mothers how to take care of their children, what kind of activities for the kids and what have you, and also a community liaison between the schools and home.

ANGELA:  But aren’t you also a cook?

JACKIE:  Well yea (laughing) I cook.  I done a lot of cooking and catering.  Every year I would go do the Bob Hope Open in Palm Springs, and what have you.

ANGELA:  Wow who taught you to cook?

JACKIE:  Well I learned a lot of it from my grandmother.

ANGELA:  From your grandmother who?

JACKIE:  Mamie.

ANGELA:  Mamie?

JACKIE:  Mamie Jones.

ANGELA:  How dID she teach you and when?

JACKIE:  Well she taught me as a little girl and we did hands on kinds of things.  She taught us how to dress chickens and wash them, how to make butter and bread and cakes and pies and those kinds of things and of course I went to school and I took Home Ec.  I took also cake decorating, I took catering classes, I took nutrition, so I know a lot about cooking. 

ANGELA:  You grew up in Denver?

JACKIE:  Yes.

ANGELA:  Okay but then you would come to Nicodemus when?

JACKIE:  I would come to Nicodemus every year.  Actually I came to Kansas every summer as a little girl growing up and I would stay with my grandmother and we usually stayed about three months and then went back to Denver and then back to school.

ANGELA:  And where was she living at?

JACKIE:  She lived between Bogue and Hill City and so that’s…

ANGELA: So you spent time with her actually out at on her farm?

JACKIE:  Right.  On the farm, we learned how to milk cows and ride horses and the whole ball of wax.

ANGELA:  You are grinning, so did you have a good time?

JACKIE:  Yea, we had a great time!  We did a lot of things my grandmother probably wouldn’t have approved of, but we did a lot of things there.

ANGELA:  Who would come down with you?

JACKIE:  My brother.

ANGELA:  So it was you and your brother that would come?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  And you would spend the summer with them?

JACKIE:  Yes we would spend the summer and we always looked forward to Homecoming as one of the biggest events of all.  Of course we went to the church every Sunday with her.

ANGELA:  Which church did she belong to?

JACKIE:  She belonged to First Missionary Baptist.

ANGELA:  Here in Nicodemus?

JACKIE:  There in Nicodemus.

ANGELA:  So you would come and go to church with her?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  Are you a Baptist now?

JACKIE:  Now I amm I was a Pentecostal in Denver.

ANGELA:  Okay so when you would come down when you were younger, so you would ride horses and be at the farm and she taught you how to cook.  Did she teach you anything about any sewing skills like making quilts and those kinds of things?

JACKIE:  Well you know I didn’t learn how to make quilts, although I know how to, we had some sewing and we, I belonged to 4-H with my cousins that was here and we would go to 4-H up in Hill City and we also went to Ms. Blanche White’s house too and we made aprons and skirts and things of that nature.

ANGELA:  So you belonged to the 4-H when you came down?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  That’s neat.  When I have interviewed other people they have talked about the 4-H and Ms. Blanche White and some of the activities and some of the stuff that she had them doing. So you got a chance to actually be mentored by your grandmother?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  What about your aunts and your uncles, did you have any interaction with them?

JACKIE:  All the time in Denver there was two aunts there and one aunt in Colorado Springs and so we did a lot of things together.  They taught me some cooking, professionals and Shirley cooks in a school system in Colorado Springs.  My mom she was a nurse and she also cooked in a nursing home.  She had her own nursing home and then Aunt Alta she was the cake decorator and what have you so.  I got a lot of first hand experience.

ANGELA:  Directly from the women?

JACKIE:  Right. 

ANGELA:  The women in your family?

JACKIE:  And some of the men.

ANGELA:  And some of the men?

JACKIE:  Some of the men, Uncle Joe I can equate some of the things on Cajun food.  I learned how to make gumbo from him which a lot of people can’t make it like we do, but I learned how to do that.

ANGELA:  Did you learn how to do any canning?  Did you watch your grandmother?

JACKIE:  I watched my grandmother can and I do can and going to can this weekend!

ANGELA:  You are going to can this week?  What are you going to can?

JACKIE:  I got peaches, I got plums and a few apples and I am going to…

ANGELA:  Where did you get the fruit at?

JACKIE:  I went to Denver and picked up some fruit and brought it back.

ANGELA:  Colorado peaches?

JACKIE:  Well you know they are not Colorado peaches.  I didn’t buy any Colorado peaches because there wasn’t any there in Denver.

ANGELA:  So you learned to can by your grandmother?

JACKIE:  Yea.

ANGELA:  Wow, so getting back to Homecoming, what kinds of things would you do to get prepared for Homecoming?

JACKIE:  Oh, we had to make sure we looked just so.  Everybody had to get their hair done and we had to have something really cute because we knew we were going to dance and we had to look the part.  We had to be able to attract the boys!

ANGELA:  So you would get special outfits?

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  What about Homecoming do you find most enjoyable or what kinds of memories do you have about Homecoming?

JACKIE:  Well as a kid it was always the dance.  The dance was so important we knew that they was going to go do that and we never made it there hardly on Friday night, but always Saturday we knew we were going.  So we were excited and the other piece even when it wasn’t Homecoming there was a little building across from the Hall and they danced in there and we would go.

ANGELA:  At the American Legion?

JACKIE:  On Friday nights and dance there.

ANGELA:  Do you know that used to be the old Fairview School?

JACKIE:  Ah.

ANGELA:  Yea, it was the Fairview School that was located out there near where Sharon lives.  Then they moved it into town next to the one room school and then when they got rid of it the American Legion bought it and moved to down there.  I remember the American Legion building I went in there one time as a little kid, peeked inside and went in and that was interesting.  So you remember the American Legion wow, so you looked forward to the dance.  As an adult how have you participated in Homecoming?

JACKIE:  Well the way I participate now we have a family reunion always at the same time as Homecoming, so I look forward to meeting people at the Homecoming and at the family reunion.  There is always a new set of cousins, so I meet a new set of cousins most of the time!

ANGELA:  What family reunion is this?

JACKIE:  This is the Cannon-Jones reunion.

ANGELA:  The Cannon -ones reunion?  Where do you guys usually have it?

JACKIE:  Usually have it up in Hill City.

ANGELA:  And it is usually at the same time on Friday or Saturday or Saturday and Sunday?

JACKIE:  Just Saturday, people would come in Friday.

ANGELA:  They are coming from all over?

JACKIE:  Yes, they come from all over.  They come from Ohio and Florida and California and of course Kansas and Colorado.

ANGELA:  How long have you guys been doing this reunion?

JACKIE:  We have been doing it since 76.

ANGELA:  Wow.  Who organizes it?

JACKIE:  Well, I have been one of the organizers since the 80’s.  My mother was the main one that had started doing this back then Marvin Price and Alta Berry  would do it then, get the invitations and get the food and stuff together and what have you for the reunion.  And at that time we did it every two years and we thought people were getting older we would start doing it every year.  And sometimes we would do in between reunions we would have another reunion.

ANGELA:  Wow, and where do you guys usually have it here?  Is it about the ones in between do you usually have them here in Kansas or are where outside?

JACKIE:  They are in Kansas, we usually have it in Nicodemus.  We usually have it at Rose Stoke’s house.

ANGELA:  Okay I think I remember one a few years you guys had one and I remember Dale coming over and I was talking to Dale.  Wow, so what families other than the Cannon-Jones that are married into the families.  What are the family’s names, what other family names are married in to the Jones’?

JACKIE:  Okay it’s the Switzers, the Bates, the Williams, and let’s see the Boyces and Rines and the Johnsons and I am there a lot of others there is some Moore’s in there.  So it is a lot of them.  And the Napues we sort of kind of impacted each other and it was necessary for my mother to leave in order to get married.

ANGELA:  When you guys have those reunions during the Celebration do you guys take group pictures, do you take pictures and that kind of thing?

JACKIE:  We did this year, our picture was put in the newspaper.

ANGELA:  Um.

JACKIE:  It came out in the Hill City Times.

ANGELA:  How many usually attend?

JACKIE:  Usually we have anywhere we have anywhere from 150 to 200 people.

ANGELA: That’s is why it is so hard to guess how many people come to Nicodemus for the Celebration and all, because  there is family reunions going on, there is so much going on it is just hard to get a real take on how many people are actually here.

JACKIE:  Right.

ANGELA:  And if you guys had that many we then I know a lot of them may not even come down on a Saturday night for the some of the activities.  Have you ever been in the parade or the fashion show at Homecoming?

JACKIE:  Uhm, no.

ANGELA:  As a kid or an adult?

JACKIE:  No I haven’t but I have family members that have before we used to have our own fashion show and we would have a reunion in Denver and then we would come down we would have already had a fashion show.

ANGELA:  So did you partipate in those?

JACKIE:  Yes. 

ANGELA:  Have you ever been in the parade then?

JACKIE:  No, I haven’t.

ANGELA:  Do you have any special are there any places in Nicodemus that is special to you.  You know on the town site or even out in the country or in the township that hold special memories or that you consider a special place to be.

JACKIE:  Well, the church is a special place because I went to the old church as little girl before they got the new church and then as  little girl when I left they was still using the old church and then I came back after being married for some time then they had the new church.  You know it brings back a lot of memories and of course the old farm has a lot of memories which it has changed, but has a lot of memories.

ANGELA:  Now which farm is this?

JACKIE:  This is the Jones farm.

ANGELA:  And who lived out there?

JACKIE:  Lawrence Jones and Mamie and Skylar.

ANGELA:  And those were your grandparents?

JACKIE:  Yes.

ANGELA:  Do you have any particular relatives that you stay in contact with?  You know we all have different people that may be a little bit closer than others. Do you have any cousins or relatives in particular that you stay in contact with or that you do things with?

JACKIE:  Yes I do.  I have lots of them.  Especially when I have 50 some  first cousins!

ANGELA:  But, that’s right you are the genealogist for the  Jones-Cannon?

JACKIE:  Right I am in contact with most of them.

ANGELA:  What motivated you to want to keep track of the family history?

JACKIE:  I think because my mother did it and then it just kind of passed on down to me.  I received a mantle like Elijah the mantle, so it passed on down to me.

ANGELA:  What do you enjoy about the doing the genealogical research?

JACKIE:  Well the part I like is finding out and meeting other people and meeting someone candidly because I have met so many people in doing that.  You know first cousins that, my first cousins I know all of them.  Well now I am meeting second cousins and third cousins so we have like four generations in my family there is five generations in my immediate family and at one point we had five generations at the church of my family.  When my mother comes we have five generations there because all of the kids are there and of course I have two great grand children.

ANGELA:  You have two great grandchildren?  When you think about Nicodemus today and you compare it to the time that you were growing up what are the changes that you see and how do you think that impacts your grandchildren and your children versus what you experienced?

JACKIE:  Well it has changed a whole lot except for you know the time change because of computers.  The computer age and of course the Hall is a little bit different than what it was when I came up because everything was basically done in the Hall.

ANGELA:  How do you feel about the fact that the National Park Service is in the Hall?

JACKIE:  It is a little different I am under the impression that the Park Service is going to build their own building and then maybe it will go back to being the Hall like I remember it as a kid.  The Hall was a special thing you were able to go over to the Hall and of course the dancing and then at Homecoming time it was always exciting to be able to go over there and I don’t know I come from a big city where there was all kinds of things around, but it was just something about that that made the difference and so that made it so much nicer.  And even going to the American Legion building you know there was all kinds of places to go in Denver, but it was something about going over there to dance and the music of course was ancient outdated, but it didn’t matter, we was still having a good time.

ANGELA:  What do you think is important about Nicodemus that we should pass on?  You know if you were talking to the next generation or an unborn generation of descendants what would you say to them, what advice would you give to them?

JACKIE:  Well I talked to a man yesterday about families sticking together and becoming cohesive, helping one another and I feel like Nicodemus has that charm.  Families coming back together and sharing and meeting new people and finding out there is a strange person in town but that person really is my cousin or something.  Cousins from way back passed generations and you always are meeting somebody interesting and then two the other piece you know when they have funerals you get to meet people there again, people that you never dreamed of that was kin to you.  In Colorado I ran into that I would run into people that I went to church with and I had no idea that they was a part of my family.

ANGELA:  Wow.

JACKIE:  No idea.

ANGELA:  Wow.

JACKIE:  I grew up with some kids we played together and we could have been girlfriend and boyfriend you know, but we weren’t we just friends and we just played together and then when my last great aunt died and I went to the funeral and there was those kids there and I wondered “What are they doing here?”  I just wanted to know what the connection was.  Well those were my great aunt’s grandkids. 

ANGELA:  Wow.

JACKIE:  And I grew up and played with those kids and I never knew it they lived right around the corner from us.

ANGELA:  Wow.

JACKIE:  And so I feel like you know, the one good thing about Nicodemus is families do come together and they get to know who they are kin to because we are such a big family until you go out in the world and you run into a cousin, but you think, well there is connection, but you are not sure why there is a connection.  Well the connection could be that person is kin to you and not eligible to be a spouse or a lover or whatever.

ANGELA:  So, what would you say to this unborn generation or the kids that are coming along now.  What advice would you give them?

JACKIE:  I would tell them to, if they are courting age, know who you are seeing and dating what have you, because it could be your cousin.  You know and it is something about the looks of the cousins you don’t always know, if you haven’t been a part of.  I would instruct them to try to come to family reunions and be a part of families you know don’t be an outcast and have nothing to do with people.  Meet people, intrigue people and find out who you are and find out who they are, know who you are and that’s is real important to know who you are.

ANGELA:  If you have a magic wand you could say bling, what would Nicodemus look like and be like and what kinds of things would you add or subtract, so to speak or what would you like Nicodemus to be like?

JACKIE:  Well, I would if it is was me, I would put in maybe a store a grocery store and I would put in a filling station so they wouldn’t have to go so far to get gas and stuff like that.  Put in a library and a post office is not really necessary, but it would be a good thing.  A restaurant and a motel.

ANGELA:  Yes, I think those are essentials.

JACKIE:  Yea.

ANGELA:  Do you see value in what we are doing here with the oral history project.  Do you think it is of importance?

JACKIE:  I do, you know, because you are passing on a legacy and just like Alex Haley when he wrote his book.  He continued, they passed on everything from generation to generation.  I feel like it is necessary for us to continue to pass on the heritage that we belong to and what have you.  I am proud to be a descendant. I have no problem with it.  Maybe some little tiny town, but I have no problem with being a descendent.  I have no problem telling anybody about being a descendant of Nicodemus.

ANGELA:  That’s wonderful.  Is there anything else that you would like to add to the interview?   Anything else you would want to say or any stories that you have that you carry with you, that you want to share with others?   About Nicodemus, about something that may have happened to you as a child.  Let me ask you this, did you ever go fishing and hunting?  Did you do anything of like?

JACKIE:  I didn’t do that, but my first husband he did that and his goal to come down here to hunt not so much fish but he would fish when he came down.  But I always came with him to do hunting and fishing with him only to maybe take care of the hunters and what have you, because I know my family down here that is what they did, they took care of hunters and they still are taking care of hunters!  So that was the fun part of coming, you know and I would come fairly often and then finally we got a house in Damar and we had it for 12 years and we would come down with the kids and I, my husband died shortly after we got the house, but I kept the house for the 12 years and I would bring the kids on their break, because they went to year round school so we had a break in the wintertime in which we didn’t come in the winter time, but we would come in the spring and then we would come in the summer and then they had a fall break we would come then.  And sometimes we would come for Thanksgiving, but not too often, because I did other things in Denver on Thanksgiving and Christmas, because I fed the homeless and that kind of thing.

ANGELA:  Well if you don’t have anything else to add this has been good interview.

JACKIE:  No, I really don’t, you know.

ANGELA:  I am glad I got a chance to get you interviewed.

JACKIE:  I am just really excited about being here and I am also looking forward to seeing some real changes take place in Nicodemus, I really am.

ANGELA:  Well hopefully you will be a part of making those changes!

JACKIE:  I certainly hope too!

ANGELA:  Alright well thank you for the interview.

JACKIE:  You are welcome.

INTERVIEW WITH

JONATHAN WELLINGTON

April 22, 2011 – Tom Wellington, Interview

TOM:  My name is Thomas Wellington and today I am in Los Angeles California. The date is Friday the 22^nd of April, 2011. And I’m at Jonathan Rud Wellington’s residence. The residence address is 2131 South Orange Drive, Los Angeles, 90016. I am here to conduct the interview with Jonathan Rud Wellington. What is your full name?

JONATHAN:  My name is Jonathan Rud Wellington.

TOM:  What is your birthdate?

JONATHAN:  My birthdate is 1/28/51.

TOM:  How old are you right now?

JONATHAN:  I am 60 years old.

TOM:  Are you married, divorced, single?

JONATHAN:  I am single.

TOM:  What was your spouse’s name?

JONATHAN:  None.

TOM:  Where were you born?

JONATHAN:  I was born in Los Angeles California.

TOM:  Who are your parents?

JONATHAN:  My parents are father, Amos Wellington, Nicodemus Kansas. Mother, Cassie Woods, Louisiana. Shreveport.

TOM:  What are your siblings’ names and ages?

JONATHAN:  My brother’s name, my oldest brother is Amos Wellington, 70; my youngest sister is Ethel Wellington. She’s 58 years old and my younger brother, Michael Wellington is 47 years old.

TOM:  Who are your grandparents on both sides of your family?

JONATHAN:  My grandparents are Thomas Wellington, Clara Wellington on my father’s side. My mother’s side are Dewiser Woods and Cassie Pearl Woods.

TOM:  And your grandparents on your father’s side are from Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  They were from Nicodemus. My mother’s parents were from Louisiana.

TOM:  Where did you grow up?

JONATHAN:  I grew up in Los Angeles California.

TOM:  Where did you attend school?

JONATHAN:  I attended Dorsey High School. Do you want.

TOM:  What year?

JONATHAN:  I graduated in 1969. I left there. I went to Long Beach State in 1969, leaving Long Beach State, I went to Southern California Edison.

TOM:  What did you like about school where you attended?

JONATHAN:  School was beautiful because I was a track star. I used to run track. I went to, I took city

here three years in a row and I was also held the world’s record for the 440 relay, beating USC while I attended Long Beach State.

TOM:  While in high school, describe the teachers, lunch, recess and other school activities that you experienced.

JONATHAN:  At Dorsey High School, I was uplifted. I was in everything. So we had a really good time. Everybody was cordial. We had a good group of people. Everybody worked together. Everything was good. We had good teachers. Everybody was good.

TOM:  Do you have any memorabilia from let’s say when you ran track?

JONATHAN:  I have every trophy I’ve ever won.

TOM:  Have you thought about what you’re going to do with those?

JONATHAN:  I’m going to keep my trophies like I’ve been doing.

TOM:  Would ever consider maybe donating them to the Historical Society?

JONATHAN:  Maybe a couple of them.

TOM:  Have you ever lived in Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  I’ve never lived there; but I’ve been there several times. Starting back from 1957 when I can remember being a track star because I was chased by a hog and it made me awfully quick coming down Aunt Ora’s driveway. Yes, good times in my life. Best times ever.

TOM:  What other things do you remember about going to Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  Nicodemus was like a dream to me because we got to have a good time. I had my little bitty cousins, Bubby Switzer and Earlice and all the little girls. We had a good time. It was just a good time being in Nicodemus. It was freedom. It was direct freedom.

TOM:  Normally when you went to Nicodemus, how did you travel?

JONATHAN:  We drove most of the time. But there were some times we flew in. I have been there so many times, I have come in every kind of direction you can think of.

TOM:  Where did you normally stay there in Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  We usually stayed at either Aunt Ora’s or Cousin Harold or anywhere.

TOM:  Ora Switzer?

JONATHAN:  Yes, Ora Switzer. Mostly it was Ora Switzer.

TOM:  How did you view yourself and your family in comparison to those who grew up in Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  Well, we were all just having a good time together. We had, we were more, everybody was we were all equal.  We were too young to decipher the difference in opinions of people.

TOM:  How many times did you miss going to Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  As far as Homecoming, I don’t think I ever missed any. I was there almost every year. My daddy said, look we’re getting in the car. Let’s go and that was it. My father was strong and he was demanding. Whatever he said went. I miss that ole boy.

TOM:  How, what do you remember about the dances during Homecoming?

JONATHAN:  We had such a good time at Homecoming. I loved to dance. I would always dance all over the place.

TOM:  You remember when there were bands and djs?

JONATHAN:  Yes, I do. We did have a couple of times and here later we really had more bands.

TOM:  Do you have any type of memorabilia from that time?

JONATHAN:  I have all my t-shirts, I believe. All my t-shirts and a lot of pictures. Even going back to the pancake breakfasts and all of the buffalo soldiers and parades.

TOM:  Do you remember about the food and vendors?

JONATHAN:  Food was the best food in the world. Aunt Ora had her stuff laid out, everybody else was there. So we had a very good time. I remember going to Ora’s store, we used to call it, way back in the 50’s.

TOM:  Do you remember the fashion/talent show that they have in the Hall?

JONATHAN:  They always had a fashion/talent show. In fact, I participated because I loved to dress.

TOM:  Were you ever in the parade?

JONATHAN:  Only once or twice.

TOM:  Do you have a favorite cousin or one you hung out with?

JONATHAN:  I used to hang out with several, all my cousins. Earlice was one of my good cousins and Tommy, all the Switzers. Harold Junior, everybody you can think of. All our family was there.

TOM:  Did you come to Nicodemus any other time other than Homecoming?

JONATHAN:  Yes, many times. We’d come, my dad would love to come back. He loved it. We came to Demus more than for Homecoming. We were always in Demus.

TOM:  Did you ever go back to do any hunting?

JONATHAN:  Always. We always went to hunt our deer and pheasant and everything. We had a good time. Lee Everett was always the leader on us. Lee Everett, Harold Senior, Veryl Switzer and Boo. Brother Boo. All of us had a good time.

TOM:  Did you ever attend the Graham County Fair?

JONATHAN:  Yes, three or four times we attended the Graham County fair.

TOM:  What did you think of the county fair in relationship to the Nicodemus Homecoming?

JONATHAN:  Well, I liked the county fair; but I didn’t know as many people as I know in Nicodemus. Our parade was the best thing going. You know, when you know everybody there you can kind of relax and just have a good time. Our family affair was one of the most beautiful things ever. Our homecoming was really, really nice. It was the only time we really got to see each other.

TOM:  What did you think about having Nicodemus to come to as it relates to family and your own town?

JONATHAN:  I love going to Nicodemus because we got to see the number one family on my daddy’s side. Because my mother’s side was all in California at that time. So it was always good to go to Nicodemus.

TOM:  Were there any special things you thought the most about Homecoming?

JONATHAN:  The food, you know the niceness of everybody. Everybody being so happy together you know just having a good time. No faultness, everybody pure at heart.

TOM:  What church affiliation are you?

JONATHAN:  I am ACME right now. I’m a Christian. But I’ve been, I was born and baptized as a Christ Temple Holiness USA.

TOM:  Were you ever a Baptist?

JONATHAN:  I was never a Baptist.

TOM:  In your church, being affiliated with church, did you hold office?

JONATHAN:  Yes I did. I was a steward, I was on the usher board; I was in the choir.

TOM:  What are some of the skills you learned from your parents or family members, example like quilting, sewing, horse training, or horse back riding?

JONATHAN:  I learned everything from the family. I learned how to farm a little bit. I am a handy man. In fact I love pigeons so much, I still have a backyard full of them. I raise birds still. I guess the farmer part of me is still from Nicodemus.

TOM:  What relatives had an impact or major influence on you?

JONATHAN:  Veryl Switzer was number one; because we were little, he took us to the coliseum when the Green Bay Packers played the Los Angeles Rams. We were able to walk through the tunnel at seven years old. That is something that nobody got to do but this family. Veryl was number one. Is number one in my life as far as athletes go. After that we had many athletes come up it seemed like. But Veryl was number one. Lee Everett was number two; Boo was number three, Cousin Harold was right there. We just all had a good time together. They were my daddy’s favorite nephews.

TOM:  Are there places in town or the township that have special meaning to you?

JONATHAN:  The church had a special meaning to me because we were able to go there and relax and pray. Sing solos and have a good time with everybody.

TOM:  Any special stories that you might remember about the relatives and the other people in town?

JONATHAN:  The number one stories when I was a young boy, I grabbed a little bitty pig and my mother and them said, you better watch out. So when I grabbed the little pig, the mama hog chased me all up town. But I got away from them. I remember myself and Bubby hunting brown birds and barbequeing them when we I think about 11 years old. That was some of the best times I’ve ever had. We just always had a good time.

TOM:  Did you ever hear any stories when you were talking with your cousins and stuff about hunting or farming?

JONATHAN:  We had good stories about hunting. I remember when everybody was shooting deer. Everybody wanted to get that first deer of the year. We used to always love the pheasant hunting. So it was just a good thing. There was so much land. There was so much greenery and so pretty. You know, free space.

TOM:  In talking with your cousins and relatives that lived there in Nicodemus, did they ever share with you information about their school and how you compared your schooling with their schooling?

JONATHAN:  Now, right. Now most our cousin Uncle Glen’s wife was a teacher there in the old days. And everybody had her as a teacher. That was the main thing, you know. Cousin Irene, Irene Wellington was a teacher there. And my school was just we had 10 or 15 rooms we’d have to go in; but they had one little class and that was always explained to us.

TOM:  Are there any particular relatives that you stayed in contact with on a regular basis?

JONATHAN:  Thomas Wellington, Bubby Switzer, Harold Junior, Earlice and let’s see. That’s basically my thing. I used to stay in contact with Lee Everett also until his passing.

TOM:  Did you mentor any younger generation of relatives?

JONATHAN:  Right, Phil Switzer mentored me because he was a track man. Marvin was an athlete. He played football. All of us were athletes. And so we just had kind of come together and we kind of drove each other to be champions.

TOM:  Any younger generation?

JONATHAN:  Younger than that? No, I can’t think of.

TOM:  What do you think is important for the next generation of descendants to know about Nicodemus and/or the people.

JONATHAN:  What the youngsters need to know is this is purity. We are not going to have this. We got to stay focused. The youngsters have to stay focused and realize that life is going to be rough if they don’t get their education. If they don’t study. If they get out and they do things they are not supposed to do. They have got to keep their stuff together. They can’t drift off.

TOM:  What does being a descendant mean to you?

JONATHAN:  Being a descendant to me means being somebody you look up to.

TOM:  What is your biggest concern about the future of Nicodemus?

JONATHAN:  The future of Nicodemus to me is to make sure that we keep it going. You know, there is so much stuff going on, the country is getting so bad you’ve got to make sure we’ve got our historical, our history there. Because there are only about three black townships around and I want to make sure that Nicodemus is still there. I mean, Okemoke and Nicodemus are about the only two that are left right now. It’s very important for black people in general.

TOM:  What does Nicodemus mean to you?

JONATHAN:  Nicodemus to me means love, peace, joy and happiness. It’s the start of everything of the nation for black people. We need it. Because there is too much corruption out here in the city. It’s a peaceful place and we’ve got to keep our stuff together.

TOM:  What are you doing to make sure your nieces and nephews know about Nicodemus and the history?

JONATHAN:  I’m educating them on the black history as far as the townships of black people. I’m letting them know that there are only two black foundations. That was Okemoke and Nicodemus. It made our grandfathers so tough. You know, you can survive almost on your own. You know, just your self will.

TOM:  What do you think the value is of this oral history project that we are doing?

JONATHAN:  Well, this is to let people know that our history is very important. We’ve got to be in position to let people know there will not another. There is not going to be anymore. So it’s very important to keep. We’ve got to keep this. We’ve got to keep our heads straight.

TOM:  What would you like to tell the next generation of descendants being born today?

JONATHAN:  I would like to tell the youngsters to keep their heads up; keep their stuff together; have the peace and love of the foundation of our Nicodemus has kept us. Do not let it go. Because if they let it die out, it’s over with. It’s going to be all the way over with.

TOM:  Were you ever in the military?

JONATHAN:  No. I was in college at the time. So I had a student deferment. So I missed the Viet Nam era.

TOM:  Were you a musician or played any instruments?

JONATHAN:  No I never did.

TOM:  I might have asked you this; but I’ll ask again. Do you think there is a value in doing this oral history?

JONATHAN:  I believe it is beautiful to have somebody come in and do our oral history for us. This is much needed. We can’t let Nicodemus die. Whatever we do; we have to keep it going.

TOM:  OK, last question. If you were talking to the next generation of unborn descendants of those young ones, what advice would you give them about Nicodemus and the families?

JONATHAN:  I would let them know that Nicodemus is going to be here forever, if they keep their heads right. They have got to do their thing right. They cannot let it slip away. It’s too much, the environment is going to be too heavy to it’s going to be too messy the way everything is going right now. We need to keep this thing going. Because if they let it go, there will be no more.

TOM:  OK that concludes the interview. I thank you for your time.

INTERVIEW WITH

YVETTE PIERFAX

May 30, 2011 – Teresa Switzer, Interviewer

TERESA:  Hello. My name is Teresa Switzer and today is May 30, 2011 and I’m located at Angela Bates’ home in Bogue Kansas. I’m here to conduct an interview with Yvette Diane Pierfax. May I get your full name again and spell it for me.

YVETTE:  Y-V-E-T-T-E D-I-A-N-E P-I-E-R-F-A-X

TERESA:  Thank you. And when were you born and your age?

YVETTE:  I was born December 14, 1950 and 60 years old.

TERESA:  Are you married, divorced, widow, single?

YVETTE:  I’m divorced.

TERESA:  What was your spouse’s name?

YVETTE:  Reginald Pierfax.

TERESA:  What was your maiden name?

YVETTE:  Yvette Diane Sayers.

TERESA:  When were you married and where?

YVETTE:  I was married July 26, 1980 in Nicodemus Kansas.

TERESA:  How many children do you have and what are their names from oldest to youngest?

YVETTE:  I have three children. My first is Marcel Julian Pierfax. He is 28. Miranda Pierfax. She is 25. And Andre Pierfax. He is 22.

TERESA:  Where do your children live?

YVETTE:  California.

TERESA:  What particular town?

YVETTE:  My oldest lives in Rialto and my two younger ones live in Covina.

TERESA:  And do you have any grandchildren?

YVETTE:  I have three grandchildren. Myia Pierfax. She is eight. Marcel Junior. He is 6. And Justin Pierfax. He’s three.

TERESA:  And are they all with one child or do you have them from each one of your children? The grandchildren.

YVETTE:  They are from, they are my oldest son’s.

TERESA:  Now, Diane, where were you born?

YVETTE:  I was born in Hays, Kansas.

TERESA:  Who are your parents and did they grow up in Nicodemus?

YVETTE:  My parents are Clarence and Yvonne Sayers. And yes, they grew up in Nicodemus.

TERESA:  And if you have siblings, what are their names and ages starting with the oldest?

YVETTE:  Marilyn Louise Sayers Gray. She’s my oldest sister. My youngest sister is Vicki Jones and she-s 59. Then my youngest sibling is Aaron Sayers and he is 57.

TERESA:  And how old is Marilyn?

YVETTE:  61.

TERESA:  And do you know who your grandparents were on both sides of the family and their names?

YVETTE:  Yes, on my dad’s said it was Wilma Sayers and Irvin Sayers. On my mother’s side it was Halbert Napue and Vernita Napue.

TERESA:  Where did you grow up and where did you attend school and what was school life like for you?

YVETTE:  I grew up in California. I started elementary school there and it was tough at times. My mother worked three jobs at one time and I managed to get two years of college.

TERESA:  Did you do like any outside activities or do you have any memorable events in story?

YVETTE:  I loved to dance. And I loved to socialize. And I just liked being around people.

TERESA:  Have you ever lived in Nicodemus?

YVETTE:  No.

TERESA:  When did you start coming to Nicodemus. Can you remember coming any other time outside of Homecoming?

YVETTE:  I just basically Homecoming. Our parents used to bring us back here every year when we were young. And I know it was basically around Homecoming because I remember all the people. We very seldom came, maybe a few times. But most of the time it was for Homecoming.

TERESA:  What do you remember most about coming to Homecoming?:

YVETTE:  Just preparing food a lot of food and trying to find some time to fish. Just being excited about seeing everyone.

TERESA:  And how did you usually travel when you came out here?

YVETTE:  By car.

TERESA:  What do you remember, what’s one of the most memorable experiences that you remember coming out from California to Nicodemus for Homecoming? Anything that kind of stands out?

YVETTE:  Yes. I remember coming out here and we’d always want to come a little earlier so I could go fishing and I would go fishing with my grandmother and Aunt Juanita.  One of the most memorable moments was I went, I was out there I caught a great big turtle. I mean a huge turtle and my aunt told me that she would make turtle soup for me and when I pulled it up I dropped it and it took off running and you know later on, maybe a year or two later I asked her what happened to the turtle. She forgot and left it in the trunk and it spoiled.

TERESA:  Oh no. When you came down to Nicodemus, where did who did you usually stay with and where?

YVETTE:  Well, we stayed with both our grandparents at the time. I stayed in Hill City at my grandpa Sayers place with my grandmother and then I would stay at my mother’s mother’s house down in Demus. We would kind of go back and forth.

TERESA:  How do you view yourself and your family in comparison to those who grew up in Nicodemus?

YVETTE:  I think it’s a slight difference because the city is expensive and when you come back here, it’s like what might be expensive to them here isn’t expensive out there.

TERESA:  How many times did you miss coming to Homecoming?

YVETTE:  Not too many when I was young. I think a few times after I got older I would miss maybe ever other year or something like that. But not too many. I always liked coming down.

TERESA:  What do you remember about the dances during Homecoming? Do you remember when there were bands versus DJ’s, any memorable stories about either one of those two forms of entertainment?

YVETTE:  I don’t remember bands. I just remember being in the Hall and getting a ticket and it was dark and I enjoyed being in the Hall; but I don’t remember the bands.

TERESA:  What do you remember most about the food and/or the vendors?

YVETTE:  It was good. I remember my mother’s, my mother having her little Vonnie’s Café trailer up there frying chicken, how she would wait right until the dance would take a break or the entertainment would take a break and she would always rush to put that chicken on so the people would come over there and smell it. I know the food was really really good. Not just my mother’s but everyone’s was good.

TERESA:  Diane, what do you remember most about the fashion and talent show and did you ever participate and what did you wear?

YVETTE:  Yes, I’m one of those that like to get involved in activities at Homecoming. I’m not shy. So it doesn’t bother me to always try to get with my sisters and try to think of something before Homecoming to do and we always try to get our outfits together for the fashion show. I think I have been in just about every talent show. Except for last year, I wasn’t here. But I always try to get in the talent show. Fashion show and the talent show. I remember I coordinated our talent, we had an En Vogue. I put that together and I still look at it sometimes. It was fun and we practiced. It’s been years; but it was fun. Now when my children come back here, I always try to encourage them to participate in something because everyone has talent so I try to encourage them to get in the talent show or model or something. I just don’t like when they come down and don’t participate in something. We have to keep that going for Homecoming to be nice, you know. Everybody has to participate in something.

TERESA:  Did you ever participate in the parade?

YVETTE:  No.

TERESA:  And when you came down here, what were some of your favorite cousins, ones that you kind of ran around with, you know, who were they and how were they related to you?

YVETTE:  When I was young? I’d have to say Linda and Patty Jones because we were always going out to their home and it was different because they stayed so far out to me, when I was young. But now that I’m older, it’s really not quite that far; but seemed like it was so far, way out where no one was around. And we’d do things to keep us entertained and because they were farmers, we’d milk the cows, we’d gather eggs, we would make milk. So all of that was interesting to us and my Aunt Bert would make a lot of, she would bake all the time, homemade bread, pies and cakes. So that was fun going out to their house just seeing the way they lived compared to the way we lived in the city and it was amazing how they had to do things to survive.

TERESA:  Your Aunt Bert was

YVETTE:  My mother’s second, no third sister.

TERESA:  So that would make them your first cousins. Did you ever have an opportunity like spend more than just the few weeks, or couple of weeks during Homecoming, did you ever come out for the summer to Nicodemus and stay an extended period of time?

YVETTE:  No, I didn’t. I’d either come a week before homecoming and stay a week after Homecoming. But it was always around Homecoming.

TERESA:  And also as part of that, did you ever attend the Graham County fair after Homecoming? What did you think of the fair in relationship to the Nicodemus Homecoming if you ever did attend?

YVETTE:  We did attend the fair and it was fun. It was different. I think I rode on a few rides. I used to like the ferris wheel. I guess when I was young, it seemed so big. But I remember going up there to the fair. I didn’t really stay that long.

TERESA:  What do you think about having Nicodemus to come to as it relates to you know a family and your own? How do you view coming down to Nicodemus in relationship to your family, your town, what does it mean to you?

YVETTE:  It means a lot. Because we go back so far and the history of it. I’d like to see it keep going. I always tell my children the history of it and when I’m not here anymore, I’d like them to continue to come back and to let them know at least they have somewhere they can go if they ever want to get away from the city. You want to go to a quiet place, you can go there and retire and just enjoy your senior years.

TERESA:  Now what church do you belong to?

YVETTE:  I belong to a church called Maranatha Community Church in LA.

TERESA:  What activities do you do with the church?

YVETTE:  I’m a Sunday School teacher for 25 years.

TERESA:  How wonderful. Do you teach a particular grade or do you teach the adults or

YVETTE:  I started off teaching second, no I started off teaching fourth and fifth. I did that for about ten years. Then I went to junior high school. Now I’m teaching second and third. I’ve been teaching second and third for some time.

TERESA:  Now what were some of the skills that you learned from either your parents or your like grandparents or an aunt, you know, quilting, sewing, fishing, horse riding?

YVETTE:  My skills that I have, I didn’t really realize it until I came back here this time, I have a lot of my mother’s skills. I love to cook and eat; but I love to fish and I love to sew also. Just finding the time to do it, quilting no, but I did love to sew and fish and I feel like I acquired that from my mother and I’m also a people person because she is a people person too.

TERESA:  And that kinds of leads into the next question, what relative had an impact or major influence on you and why?

YVETTE:  My grandmother, Verna Napue and my mother. Because my grandmother, she always showed so much love and caring and she always wanted to make sure we had food all the time. My mother, she loved us. She really truly loved us and she had an impact on me because she kept every single thing and I know she always used to tell us to stay close to the Lord and no matter what happens, always stay close to the Lord and your life will work out fine. I think that’s one of the main things that she instilled in me and my life. To always put God first and to never leave Him.

TERESA:  Are there places in the town or in the township that have any special meaning to you and if there are, why and where are they?

YVETTE:  The old church. And I think the post office too. The old church and the post office. The old church because I just remember that so well before they added on the other one. I remember my grandmother in there singing and both grandparents. Everyone in there singing and sometimes when I look at it, I see them, you know. And the post office because it was I guess since they made that old movie in there with my grandmother and Cousin Ora and all of them and my grandfather and they were all in there making that movie and I still have it and it’s a historical site. It truly is a historical site.

TERESA:  Are there any other stories that you remember about relatives and other people in the Nicodemus community you know in particular maybe a funny farming story that you kind of heard passed down or hunting or fishing or anything with school, just something that kind of stuck out with you?

YVETTE:  Yes. When we were young my younger sister Vickie and I stayed over to my Aunt Juanita’s house. It was during Homecoming time and my grandmother had a lot of people staying over there. So she tried to spread it out so we went to my Aunt Juanita’s house. We were laying in there in the bedroom and we kept hearing like someone was walking in the house. And my sister called out for my Aunt Juanita and she, we kept calling out to her; but it sounded just like someone came in the house. So when she walked down the hall and came into the bedroom, we said someone is in here. And she said, there is? And we said yes, somebody walked in and they are walking down the hall. And when she went in there she laughed so hard and she teased us about that for years. It was a big bull frog got in there and he was hopping down the hall and we didn’t know it sounded like a person walking and she laughed and she teased us about that for years. When we got older, we were so frightened, you know that we were hollering for her and we just after we got older we would always think back on that and start laughing. Until she died, she would always remind us of that. That was one fun moment. Another one. I would have to say at my grandmother’s house she would always tell us that there she had a lot of our belongings when we were little down in the cellar or somewhere around the house; but she didn’t know where it was. So I was always curious about where that could be. No one could remember the exact spot; but I guess it’s like something underneath that has a lot of stuff from when we were young. They used to always be a mystery to me because I always wanted to go down there and look at it.

TERESA:  Just a hidden storage place. Do you have any particular relatives that you maintain a contact with on a regular basis and who would they be?

YVETTE:  On a regular basis. Well, my uncle Leatrice. He’s the only one left now out of his siblings. I try to keep in touch with him as often as I can. And I guess, the Bates, Cheryl and I are pretty close in California because she’s from Kansas and Nicodemus and we hang close in California. And that’s all.

TERESA:  Well these next few questions are mainly in looking to the future of Nicodemus. Do you try to mentor any of the younger generation relatives and who do you kind of talk to you know kind of keep the trust of Nicodemus alive with?

YVETTE:  Well, my children and my grandchildren they’ve never been down here but I always talk about it and show them pictures all the time. And you know I love working with children. So if I see some little kids down here in Nicodemus, I try to encourage them to always participate in homecoming and to bring out their talent whatever it is. So everyone has a talent; but you just have to bring it out by using it. So I try to encourage them to never forget about Nicodemus.

TERESA:  What do you think is important for the next generation of descendants to know about Nicodemus or the people of Nicodemus?

YVETTE:  That they need to continue to support it. Support the Homecoming. Do everything they can to keep it going, to keep Nicodemus alive. And know that it’s definitely a historical site and it means a lot to all of those who are here and all those who have gone on and that they would want us to keep it going from generation to generation.

TERESA:  What does being a descendant mean to you personally?

YVETTE:  It means a lot. It means a lot because I just it has so many memories. I feel everyone’s spirit when I come here when I’m walking. I feel everyone’s spirit and I talk to them, that’s just me, I feel their spirit more so than when I’m in California because it’s so busy, so many people; but when I come back here, it’s quiet, it’s peaceful, deer walking around, pheasants. I just love all of that. I just feel like it’s a very relaxing place to be when you just want to get away and walk and talk.

TERESA:  And another part of that question is then and you probably kind of touched on it as well, what does Nicodemus mean to you?

YVETTE:  It means a black community that was basically all of my relatives, but back as far as I can think of and they settled here and my mother and my father grew up there. Their parents and it’s like the beginning of my generation. So I would like to for my children once I’m gone away from here, I would like them to keep it going. Keep coming down here and tell the history of it to be able to say that this is where your grandmother’s mother, keep going back as far as they can and so that they can appreciate you know what we have accomplished there.

TERESA:  What is your biggest concern about the future of Nicodemus?

YVETTE:  That it would get too small and that no one will move back in and then just fade on out.

TERESA:  And what do you think is the value of this oral history project, if everything was done right, what do you think would be the value of what we are gathering the information?

YVETTE:  The value, well, I really don’t know other than it would you mean the interview and all. I think it would be nice for our children, grandchildren to hear what we have to say, what we have to say about Nicodemus and when we’re gone on, they can sit back and listen to us. We need to keep Nicodemus going because that’s what our parents wanted to participate even though you’re not here for the Homecoming, just try to do what you can to make it happen every year. Even if you’re out of state, just try to get together with the community, our Homecoming Committee and just communicate and see what we can do. It shouldn’t be just the people here in Kansas, in Nicodemus, but it should be I think it should be a Homecoming Committee involving more than just the people here. Because eventually if we don’t do it like that, it will fade out. So we need to communicate more as a family and be on a committee to help the Homecoming to be a success not just depend on the people that are here.

TERESA:  What would you like to tell the next generation of descendant?

YVETTE:  Well to come down as often as you can because as I told my children, that your grandparents are not going to be around forever. So come down and see your relatives, get to know who your relatives are, your history of your parents and just get to know who you are, who your people are. That’s basically it.

TERESA:  Well thank you Diane. It’s been a pleasure talking to you today and getting your viewpoints on Nicodemus. You have a wonderful rest of the afternoon. And happy Memorial Day.

INTERVIEW WITH

PRISCILLA BATES

May 30, 2011 – Teresa Switzer, Interviewer

TERESA:  Hello my name is Teresa Switzer and today is May 30, 2011 and I am located at Angela Bates’ residence in Bogue, Kansas.  I am here to conduct an interview with Priscilla Jeanetta Bates.  Then I am going to ask what is your full name and please spell it out as well.

PRISCILLA:  Priscilla Jeanetta Bates P-R-I-S-C-I-L-L-A  -J-E-A-N-E-T-T-A B-A-T-E-S.

TERESA:  Thank you.  And what is your age and your birth date and where you born?

PRISCILLA:  I was born in Hays, Kansas, December 7, 1955, my age is 55.

TERESA:  Thank you.  Are you married, divorced, single?

PRISCILLA:  Divorced.

TERESA:  Thank you.  What was your spouses’ name?

PRISCILLA:  Troy Phillips Green.

TERESA:  And when were you married?

PRISCILLA:  Oh God August 10, no, August 5, 197. . . 1976 or somewhere around there.

TERESA:  And where?

PRISCILLA:  Pasadena, California.

TERESA:  Okay, and do you have any children?

PRISCILLA:  No children, no.

TERESA:  Thank you.  Who were your parents?

PRISCILLA:   James and Charlesetta Bates.

TERESA:  And did they grow up in Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  Yes they were born and raised in Nicodemus.

TERESA:  And what are your siblings’ names ages, starting with the oldest?

PRISCILLA:  James Bates, 63; deceased is my oldest sister, Pauline Jackson, she would have been 62 if she was still living.  Then Clint Bates, a deceased brother, he would have been 61 or 62 and Cheryl K. Jones, she is 59, and Angela is 57, yeah h 57 Angela Bates, and then myself.

TERESA:  Do you know who your grandparents are on both sides of your family?

PRISCILLA:  Pearl Bates was my father’s father, his mother was Vercilla Napue Bates.  My mother’s side Elizabeth  Risby.  My grandfather was Charlie or Charles Williams.

TERESA:  And were they from Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  Yes they were.

TERESA:  Where did you grow up and where did you attend school?

PRISCILLA:  I grew up in southern California.  I attended school in Pasadena, California.

TERESA:  What was school like for you?

PRISCILLA:  It was nice, it was okay and every summer we came home to Nicodemus.  We never spent a summer in California.

TERESA:  What did you like about school where you attended?

PRISCILLA:  I guess really it was just hanging out with my friends and the education part of it.  Typical teenager stuff.

TERESA:  Do you have memorable events or stories?

PRISCILLA:  From school?  Only grade school. When we used to, about six of my girlfriends that I am still close with, we used to walk together and we would read make up stories on the way to school.  I used to tell them I am going to be a writer one day.  (Laughing)

TERESA:  When did you come to Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  I’ve always came to Nicodemus as a child.  As an adult I have always came home every yeah r for our Homecoming Celebration.  And then I finally moved to Wichita, Kansas which is about three hours away so that I could be closer to my parents as they were getting older.

TERESA:  So before you moved to Wichita, do you remember any other time coming to Nicodemus outside the Homecoming? 

PRISCILLA:  Funerals, family funerals.  Uh and just my summer vacation as a child into my teen yeah rs.

TERESA:  What do you remember most as a child about coming to Homecoming?

PRISCILLA:  Just having fun to have the freedom to run up and down the roads, the streets and eat, basically.  Enjoy my cousins and stuff.  The parties, the dance, the celebration itself around that time in July.  Just the peace and quiet.

TERESA:  What do you remember about preparing to come to Nicodemus?  Like you were getting . . .

PRISCILLA:  As a child?

TERESA:  Hm, getting ready to take a trip. . .

PRISCILLA:  Oh yeah  I used to love it seems like the last day of school the next day we were heading, packing up the car, momma frying up chicken and baking cookies, getting some fruit together , some sodas, some water and we would load up the station wagon and she had made us a new little outfit to wear and it was just fun traveling from California to Nicodemus, we enjoyed it.  It was just fun.

TERESA:  Okay, how did you travel?

PRISCILLA:  By car.

TERESA:  And what type of car?

PRISCILLA:  Station wagon, a Chevy.  It was like a light metallic blue, bluish green station wagon.  No it was a Ford station wagon, we had that wood panels on the side of it, it was kind of pale green, until it finally did its thing and then they got the Chevy.  Oh yeah, those were the days.  I remember we used to sit on the fruit, going through the inspection stand, Momma was a diabetic, so that they wouldn’t take her oranges and stuff.  I used to sit on the fruit as a child coming through, so when they searched the car you know they didn’t see the fruit and stuff at the inspection stands.

TERESA:  So what route did you usually take from southern California area?

PRISCILLA:  Route 66!

TERESA:  When you came to Nicodemus where and with whom did you usually stay?

PRISCILLA:  My uncle and aunt out on their farm, Uncle Harry and Aunt Bernice.

TERESA:  The Bates?

PRISCILLA:  Uh huh.

TERESA:  Okay.  Uh how did you view yourself and your family in comparison to those who grew up in Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  Everybody was family.  I mean everybody was on one level, no one family was better than the other.  We all got along and just fellowship together as the family should as we do to this day.

TERESA:  Did you ever miss any Homecomings?

PRISCILLA:  Yeah, I missed, when I turned 18 I said I am not going no more, it is time for me to stay in California and go to the beaches, hang out with my friends.  So I say out of my entire life I probably have missed three.  I would say three out of my entire life from child to adulthood.

TERESA:  Now what do you remember about the dances during Homecoming?  Remember when they were bands versus DJ’s and more memorable stories that either of the two forms of entertainment that were provided?

PRISCILLA:  I remember the dances in the hall and seeing our parents dance and it was live bands and I remember how they used to have the breaks and all of the kids would be sitting down on the chairs and every now and then we would get up and dance with our parents and it was just a big happy fellowship type party it was never no fussin’ or arguing all the time or fighting it was just everyone enjoying themselves.  I just remember as a child sitting in the hall looking over there at cousins and stuff and talking and we tried to do the latest dances and we would get up on the floor and it was just a lot of fun.  Lot of fun as a child because we got to stay up late.

TERESA:  Uh, do you remember anything about the food and/or the vendors? 

PRISCILLA:  Back as a child there weren’t any vendors hardly.  It was more or less everybody cooked and everybody went over whoever’s food was there everybody shared and we ate.  It wasn’t none of this thing with the vendors buying clothes, more commercialized now than it was back then.  It was just like a big picnic, like they had like the stories were always told about the Homecoming.  As a child how our parents would tell us stories about what they used to do and how everybody brought food down and everybody shared the food, that’s what I remember the most as a child.  It was all the food we used to have sitting down on the tables. 

TERESA:  And what do you remember about the fashion talent show?  Did you ever participate?  And if you did what do you remember wearing?

PRISCILLA:   As I got older they started introducing the fashion show.  I did participate one yeah r I think I wore, I think I modeled one year lingerie, I think that was the year I did lingerie.  I bought all types of lingerie down and capitans and things like that and modeled in the fashion show one yeah r.  But it was always a nice event because it was a chance to see your cousins showing what they wear where they live and then uh, it was just nice.  It was just a nice event to see, to have a fashion show.  To the different types of outfits people wore.

TERESA:   Now were you ever in the parade?  And if you were when and doing what?

PRISCILLA:  No I was never in the parade.

TERESA:  Do you have any favorite cousins or ones that you hung out with and who were they and how were they related to you?

PRISCILLA:  Let’ see well you are one Teresa!  Teresa, Johnella Holmes, Robert Alexander, we called him Homer, uh, we all used to run together.  We could go with _______’s, Angela, Vickie and all them when they all home.  We got kicked to the curb so us three I was trying to think who was the fourth one that was with us.  We used to hang as child.  I know it was Johnella, you, Robert and there was somebody else.  But anyway we used to hang out together.  That’s why we looked forward to coming home and seeing each other, what you have been doing? How you been doing?  Hey we always wanted to hang with the older crowd but they always told us, they always kicked us to the curb and now you all can’t be on the horse, you all can’t do this, now you all ought to be going home.  Now that you can’t go up to and _______________ matches down, do you remember that?  How we used to want to go to get in the car with them when to Heartland Matches (???), they wouldn’t let us go.  We were right in the mix.  (Laughing)  How times change!

TERESA:  Did you ever attend the Graham County Fair at the Homecoming and when and what did you think of the Fair relationship to Nicodemus Homecoming?

PRISCILLA:  Yeah, I went to the fair while we were here.  Uh, it was fun, because it was going on the same time as Nicodemus so it gave us things when we didn’t want to do things at our home town, it gave us things to go up and see that they were doing for a little bit, then we would come on back home.  It was okay but sometimes it was to me like it purposely done around that time to stop people from coming down to our celebration.

TERESA:  And what do you like most our Homecoming?

PRISCILLA:  Family, visiting my family and cousins that I hadn’t seen in years.

TERESA:  Now what church affiliation are you?  And what activities are you involved in?

PRISCILLA:  My church is Calvary Baptist Church at Wichita, Kansas.  I am an usher.  I am also president of our friendship league ministry and I help other auxiliaries we have within the church, business and professional women ministry.  I am in part of that.  I sing in a choir.

TERESA:  Uh, how about some of the skills that you either learned from your parents or other family members for example, did you learn how to quilt, who did you learn it from, or sew, ride horses, cook, any of those things?

PRISCILLA:  As far as horses go I love them, but I never could really down here in Nicodemus ride them, but quilting came from my mother and my great grandmother.  My great grandmother used to make all of her quilts by hand and when I was in California we used to go over to my grandmother’s house every Sunday so Great Grandma would always be working on the quilt or had one in the process or watching her work on quilts and then my mother showing us how to do quilts.

TERESA:  And which great grandmother is this?

PRISCILLA:  This is my father’s grandmother.  Maude Napue.  My father’s grandmother.  And she used to make them and then my mother herself made quilts, Charlesetta Bates made quilts and would show us how to quilts and stuff.  But my favorite times was when working me and Darlene Green.  We used to be very close and she used to do a lot of farming and stuff on her uncle’s farm so to learn how to drive a stick shift that is where I learned on a tractor where I had to shift gears and I will never forget one summer we were out there in the field tending the field on that old tractor it was blue, I will never forget it was a blue based color tractor and then it didn’t have a canopy or anything on it so we was out in the sun going around this field tilling the dirt up and yep that is where I learned how to drive a stick shift.  Between that one and Uncle Harry’s tractor had a stick shift on it.  His was red!  (laughing)

TERESA:  What relative if there is one had an impact or major influence on your life?

PRISCILLA:  Relative?  Uh, had an impact on my life why . . . I could really say I would have to say there is two, Ernestine VanDuvall, married to Phil VanDuvall would be one because she was when she was in California she was the type of woman to always think ahead of or think outside the box of what she could do to make money.  She had her own barbecue shop and I can remember I was the very first one to work for her because I used to go to her house and put the little napkins, forks and spoons, salt and peppers in the little bags and then ride with her and sit on the money bag while she delivered the dinners to the various places in Pasadena.  Her strong will and determination I would say is still to me to be the workaholic at times I can be.  Always striving to get ahead, do things, put money back to as well and then the other one I would say is would be my mother her strong independent wisdom in telling me I make sure you always have something for a rainy day, show me what I need to do as far as growing up being a woman, and uh, those two people that influenced my life a lot.

TERESA:  Are there places in the town or township that have special meaning to you and if they are, where and why?

PRISCILLA:  Township?  Well I did like the Priscilla Arts Club building, because it was after my name.  I always said, I used to tell my girlfriends about it at the time you know I have a hall named after me as I was growing up, but I guess that and the hall in the fact that so many hands built that hall.  My grandfather and his brothers and other cousins and them all built that hall that we celebrate in each yeah r.  I guess those two buildings that stand out to me the most.

TERESA:  Do you remember any stories about relatives or other people in the Nicodemus community mainly related to either farming, hunting or fishing, school?

PRISCILLA:  I know there were several families which were relatives that did farming, the Alexanders, the Switzers, uh, my Uncle, you called him the little leprechaun, (laughing) I used to call him the little leprechaun, Uncle Alvin. I mean they were several families, yeah, I used to call him that, that used to farm and I thought that was so neat to see and to know that I had family that was raising wheat, growing wheat and corn and being sold either for grain or for purposes of eating.  That was so neat to know and then Uncle Donald, he did his own slaughtering.  I remember that back then, his pigs and curing his own meat and then the cattle.  They milked the cows and some of them made their own butter.  That was just fascinating to me as a child and as a teenager coming to Nicodemus to see that.

TERESA:  Are there any particular relatives you stay in contact with on a regular basis?

PRISCILLA:  Really the only ones I could say growing up were the Sayers and the Paytons.  Uh, those were the two families that are descendants of Nicodemus that while we were in California we were always over at their house on weekends with the parents were playing cards, drinking and talking and us kids were going out doing things together.  We had picnics out there together.  I would say that there was times that we tailgated from California to Nicodemus all three cars, three families coming home for Homecoming.  That was the two families the most that we kept up and growing up with, since they were in California too.

TERESA:  Do you have an opportunity to mentor any younger generation relatives, and can you give me a couple examples and why?

PRISCILLA:  I haven’t really had the opportunity to mentor any of my cousins or great nieces or nephews.  Uh we have talked and when I see and they have asked questions about Nicodemus I have given them answers about it, telling them that this is your grandmother on this side or this is your mom’s relatives on this side, as far as that goes, but as far as mentoring no. I never really mentored any my nieces or nephews or great nieces or nephews.

TERESA:  Okay and the next few questions are mainly about what you see for the future for Nicodemus and what do you think it is important for the next generation and descendants to know about Nicodemus and the people of Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  Well we are going to have to establish something, we are going to have establish something here for it to continue to make it grow.  As we were discussing, a general store, or food services place where products could be sold.  Something to where they will take an interest to want to come back or come down, and those that live there to take a part in it.  And even for us that don’t live here that come home every now and then it would be something that we could continue to support and send money to continue to make it grow.  But there is going to have to be something within Nicodemus to attract the younger generation because with it being like it is now no, as soon as they are out of college they are gone to the bigger cities.  There is going to have to be something here to where it could attract them, where they could start their own business, it is going to have to be something of that scale to keep them here.

TERESA:  And what does it mean to you to be a descendant and furthermore what does Nicodemus mean to you?

PRISCILLA:  Nicodemus is home.  I mean I can always lay my head somewhere in Nicodemus even though my parents have a homestead here I have a home.  Uh if it comes to the point where I have no choice but to come and live in Nicodemus I will always have a place whether it be on the homestead or with family.  Nicodemus to me is very, I am very proud of Nicodemus; even though it is going through changes and a lot of the relatives are dying off it is still home.  We still have a rich history here and our ancestors struggle and survived here and then you look at our parents who have struggled and survived here.  What is there not to appreciate about Nicodemus?  I mean we have rich history.  I have every opportunity, I take every opportunity, I should say, when I am back in Wichita to talk about Nicodemus and its history to different people, white people, uh, I let them know that you know that this is the only black surviving town left west of the Mississippi, you know, and I tell them about the history of Nicodemus and encourage them to take a road trip to come up here and see it.  You know it is amazing and when I tell my girls because two of them have come down here to see it.  They say it’s unbelievable when they just, God you don’t hear anything at night, but you can see the stars, and it is peace and quiet and fresh air, it is just so much.  Nicodemus is a place that will always be it is the promised land, it is home.

TERESA:  And now this question kind of goes back to what you had already said but what is your biggest concern about the future of Nicodemus?

PRISCILLA:  It is not prospering or not growing.  I can see where older elders are getting sick and they are passing on and soon it is going to be a little ghost town and what I mean by that the ones that are here that are my generation or my sister’s generation there is only far and few and I can see it being desolate  for a little bit, but only until we start make things happen, start to put projects in place, buildings in place, something that is going to attract and keep the ones that are here uh, it is going to be a little desolate for a little while, yeah  I can see that, but it will still be home.

TERESA:  Right.  What do you think the value of this oral history project is and what would you like to tell the next generation or descendants that are being born today?

PRISCILLA:  This project because I have several other interviews before, never really seen any results from them.  I don’t know if anything was ever done with it, but I would like to see this information published, put in the anthropology.  Uh sitting in the library of congress, sitting in school libraries somewhere this data that they collect.  This information is I like to see it being published, something done with it instead of it just being collected and put in a folder on the shelf, I would like to see something more of it to come more of it.  Uh, what is the other half of your question?

TERESA:  Uh what would you like to tell the next generation?

PRISCILLA:  The next generation?  Remember this is home and you always take care of home first no matter where you are at, make sure you come home, you take care of those that are here, check on those that are here, you don’t sell yourself, don’t sell anything here, it is all in the family and needs to remain in the family just keep doing what you got to do until you can come home and appreciate it.

TERESA:  Is there any other comments you would like to make?

PRISCILLA:  I think that when I see Nicodemus I see our ancestors.  I see them looking down on us saying okay you all better get it together now, let’s get it together.  Because when I think of the stories they had back then, the general store, the post office, the hotel, all the different businesses that are striving back then there is no reason why we can’t have a same thing again.  There is no excuse for it.

TERESA:  Thank you so much Priscilla.  It has been wonderful talking to you and thank you for your time and effort for providing this interview for us.

PRISCILLA:  You are welcome.

INTERVIEW WITH

DARLENE COLLINS

September 26, 2010 - Danica Moore, Interviewer

DANICA:  This is Danica Moore. The date is September 26, 2010. I’m in Chicago Illinois at the home of Darlene Collins. Can you state your name for the recorder please?

DARLENE:   Darlene Collins.

DANICA:  And your date of birth?

DARLENE:  April 23, 1946.

DANICA:  And your age.

DARLENE:  64.

DANICA:  And your relations in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  Clematine  Vaughn, Charles Vaughn on my maternal side and on my fraternal side with be Willford Moore, his mother and father was Sarah and Nathaniel Moore.

DANICA:  And the purpose of this research study is to increase the understanding and appreciation of the people, places, organizations that contributed to the creation and continuing existence of Nicodemus. And for participating in this, I want to ask your approval. So first of all, do you approve that we use your name in this research study?

DARLENE:  Yes.

DANICA:  And sign on that line. Secondly is it OK if we record this on audio which we have already started the recording.

DARLENE:  Yes.

DANICA:  Please initial that one. And if its ok for any videos and photos to be taken, that would be the next two lines. Alright. We’re all set. So you are from the Clematine Vaughn lineage. Can you name, um, your spouse and children?

DARLENE:  Yes, my spouse was Vernon Evert Collins. I have a daughter, Latia Collins Dunn, Melanie Elaine Rodena Collins, Julian Jeanetta Collins and Shawntelle Dudley who is my niece but I raised her as my daughter. That’s my sister Odella Maria Moore’s child.

DANICA:  When was the date of your marriage to your husband?

DARLENE:  August 31, 1965.

DANICA:  Where were you married?

DARLENE:  Lawrence Kansas.

DANICA:  When did your husband pass away?

DARLENE:  April of 2000.

DANICA:  Where is he buried?

DARLENE:  In Chicago, Evergreen Park Cemetery 87^th and Mackensie.

DANICA:  And your children have children of their own correct?

DARLENE:  I have one daughter her name is Julian Collins and she has a son and his name is Vernon Raphael Desaphono Wilkes.

DANICA:  And his birth?

DARLENE:  May 3, 2010.

DANICA:  Any other grandchildren?

DARLENE:  My niece who I raised as a daughter, has a son, Justin Burgess, age 11. Jalon Burgess, age 6 and Illa Burgess, 6 months and her husband’s name is Alonzo Burgess.

DANICA:  Do all your grandchildren live in Chicago?

DARLENE:  Yes, they all reside in Chicago.

DANICA:  Who in your family grew up in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  None of us grew up in Nicodemus. Idis, being the second oldest in the family, left Nicodemus, I’m told, at age 11 months; but we would go back every year during summer break.

DANICA:  So were you born in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  Yes I was born in Nicodemus Kansas.

DANICA:  So you left before you did any schooling there?

DARLENE:  Correct.

DANICA:  And when you left, you went to?

DARLENE:  Lincoln, Nebraska.

DANICA:  So no one else in your family grew up in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  No, I had an older brother who is deceased now, he was born in Nicodemus. But none of my siblings were raised in Nicodemus proper.

DANICA:  What families are you related to in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  Well, related to start out with my great great grandmother, Samuels, Napue, this is on my mother’s side of the family. Samuels, Napue, Craig, Sadlers, Alexander, Garlands, Reece and Reed. And on my father’s side would be Moore, Griffies, Sayers, those are the only ones I know.

DANICA:  Do you know the names of your great grand parents or great great grand parents?

DARLENE:  On mother’s side I do. I don’t know that much on my father’s side. But on mother’s side my grandmother was Clematine Napue Vaughn who was married to Charles Vaughn and then my great grand mother was Margaret Samuels Napue Thomas, and my great great great was Grandfather John Samuels and Leanna Samuels and I’m not aware of what her maiden name was.

DANICA:  And were any of your great great grand parents born in Nicodemus?:

DARLENE:  Yes, ah, my grandmother Clematine Vaughn, I don’t know if you would say she was born in Nicodemus. She was actually born in Wildhorse Township which is right outside of Bogue and later on in life, she moved to Nicodemus; but they are all within a five mile radius of each other. My grandfather, Charles Vaughn, was not born in Nicodemus. He came there as a young man and I believe my great great grandmother and great great great grandmother I don’t think any of them were born there; but they moved there as adults out of Kentucky and Arkansas, excuse me, Kentucky and Tennessee.

DANICA:  And are any of these relatives living today?

DARLENE:  None from the first, second or third generation. Fourth generation is living and fifth and sixth and seventh.

DANICA:  And where are their burials?

DARLENE:  Their burials are in Nicodemus, Kansas, Mt Olive cemetery and the Nicodemus cemetery and also the Samuels cemetery south of Bogue Kansas.

DANICA:  Who is the oldest relative that you know of in your family in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  That would be my Aunt Leanna Vaughn McMurry and she resides in Pasadena, California and I believe she is 87 years old and her birthday is April 29. Yes she is 87 cause the second oldest would be Ruth Finney and she is 84.

DANICA:  Do you know any stories about your elder relatives?

DARLENE:  Uh, well yeah, I’ve heard many of them. Little things that they told even like when they were children going to school  and they always talked about the dust storm and how they had to walk by the side of the fence to guide them to, you know, the school and back and forth and they continually talked about how they had to have gunney sacks wrapped around their feet to keep their shoes and things dry from the snow. My grandfather, Charles Vaughn, was I guess you would call him a shoe cobbler, he made their shoes for them. And then they told me a story about how they had decorated the church on Christmas and someone decided to decorate the church with candles and unfortunately about an hour later the whole Christmas tree burned down and just a lot of little cute stories I’ve heard, you know. But those are some that I remember and I’ve been told stories about how several Nicodemians used to make boot leg whiskey and where they used to store it and things of that nature.

DANICA:   Where did your family reside in Nicodemus when you were born?

DARLENE:  At the Clematine Vaughn homestead which is still standing now. That’s where all of my grandmother’s ten children were born.

DANICA:  Can you describe the location of where that is?

DARLENE:  Oh, I’m not too good with directions and what have you. But if you know where the Donald Moore residence is, it’s off to the left of there.

DANICA:  And does your family still own that land?

DARLENE:  Yes they own the land. They own the land where the house resided on and they also have land right outside Nicodemus.

DANICA:  And the house is still there as well?

DARLENE:  Yes, the house is still standing and they’re in negioations or the process of trying to secure funds to restore it to its natural habit.

DANICA:  Did your family have any type of livestock?

DARLENE:  What I was told was that they really didn’t raise livestock. I think what they had was mainly for their own food. They had a pet cow. They had a couple of hogs. And they did raise chickens; but from what I’m told, mostly everyone went to my Father’s mother, Sarah Moore, she was known for raising chickens and it seemed like a lot of people in that area would go to her because she had what they called laying hens and everyone would go and purchase eggs from Grandma Sarah Moore.

DANICA:  Do you know of anyone in your family that’s known for anything – a claim to fame – such as sports athletics in your family or culinary schools, religion?

DARLENE:  Well I know my Uncle John Vaughn, who just recently passed in February of this year, he was very good in sports – baseball as a matter of fact. And that was another story I was always told. They said in another time or different time and era that they were quite sure that he would have became a professional baseball player and I know he played on the team in Nicodemus and he also played within the US military over in France and the government contracted him to go around all the little areas and it was the Army vs the locals over in Europe and he did play I guess you would say semi-professional baseball while he was in the US Army. Then he later went to Lincoln Nebraska and played on several local teams and his little nickname was “Jackie Robinson’ but in reference to him becoming a professional baseball player that didn’t happen. And I think because of the era he grew up in it was virtually impossible for that to happen.

DANICA:  Who’s one of the relatives…..

DARLENE:  Oh, I don’t know if it means anything he was grand deputy exalt ruler of the Midwest region for the Elks and that was a very prestigious position to hold and part of his responsibility was traveling around the country mentoring to the rest of the members in that organization and that kept him very busy for years.

DANICA:  So what relatives are you closest to in Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  Well, with the exception of my siblings, uh, it would be my mother’s aunts which would be Ruth Finney, and Leanna McMurray. On my father’s side it would be Bertha Moore Carter and Florence Moore Howard and my uncle Donald Moore and my aunt Teeny Moore and several of my first cousins down there. And I have first cousins out in California the Williams side of the family and I would say I’m close, actually I see all of my mother’s side of the family on a regular basis at least two or three times a year. And on my father’s side, I see some of them at least once a year. So I would say predominately I’m not estranged from my mother’s or father’s side of the family. And then there’s cousins that are in Nicodemus and I see them when I go down there.

DANICA:  How often do you make it to Nicodemus?

DARLENE:  I used to go every year for maybe about 25 years then in the last 10 to 12 years, I’ve been down there maybe every two to three years. And the last time I was there, I attended Homecoming festivities in 2009.

DANICA:  So when you were going down every year was that just for homecoming or did you find other trips to squeeze in besides Homecoming.

DARLENE:  No we would definitely go just for Homecoming.

DANICA:  Tell me about your Emancipation Homecoming experiences. When is the first Homecoming you remember going to?

DARLENE:  Well I really couldn’t tell you age wise but probably when I was around five years old. And the reason I say that is at that time Homecoming used to have carnivals and they would have them adjacent to the town hall and I just remember my uncles going up there hitting the bottles and you were winning little stuffed animals and little pink piggy banks and things of that nature. So I would say I was around five years old I would believe that was my first indication or remembrance of homecoming. And to me it was just like a big picnic, a lot of fun and just meeting all kinds of people and running around chasing frogs, riding on the back of cows and eating.

DANICA:  So do you remember a particular Homecoming and memories that you will always remember that had a major impact on you?

DARLENE:  I believe it was in 19 it was in the 70s and we had held the 85^th birthday for my grandmother Clematine Vaughn in Nicodemus, Kansas right around the same time as Homecoming and that was pretty special because it seemed like that year just about every one of my grandmother’s siblings and their children were all down there and attended the function. So, that’s what I remember. I think that was one of my most memorable Homecomings and one of the other ones was – it wasn’t one in particular but it was always with my grandfather on my father’s side, Nathaniel Moore, because we spent a lot of time together under the tree talking and playing dominoes so I can’t say it was a specific year,  but that was something I looked forward to every year that I would go down there.

DANICA:  You talked about how there was a big carnival, were you ever at any homecomings when they were located at Scruggs Grove?

DARLENE:  No, that was before my time. Because I always heard about those and I can’t tell you when they discontinued those; but  they weren’t within my lifetime, it was just a memory  of what it used to be. Now, I take that back, because I seemed like I went down into the grove as a child but I don’t remember too much about it. All I remember was going through a bunch of corn fields and I think at that particular time they had a softball game going on down there. I don’t remember anything in reference to food or anything like that. Might have been, but I don’t remember that. I do remember them taking us into this field and telling us this was where we used to have our homecoming functions. But to my recollection I’ve never been in the grove for a homecoming function.

DANICA:  So you talked about the music and some of the festivities that came with Homecoming in the early phases of it, what were some of the food vendors that remember Homecoming being known for?

DARLENE:  When I was a child, they really didn’t have food vendors. It was left up to the locals and normally at that time, you had someone within your family that resided in Nicodemus preferably most of them were your grandparents and what they would do was always have food at their house. But then on Sunday after church, all of them volunteered and they had a church dinner for all the folks that had come down during Homecoming and they used to go to the church and have that. But they weren’t any individual vendors at all when I was a child. It was just done within the homes. But I do know that any home you went to they always offered you food or they were always giving us lemonade, homemade ice cream, cake and cookies and I had an aunt, Aunt Teeney, she used to, in this day and age you call it ‘hook me up’, she always made cookies for me and I’ll always remember that because I had them while I was down there and when I left going back to Topeka, Kansas, she would always have me a big coffee can full of cookies so that was something I looked forward to and it got so good, everyone else was trying to get a can of cookies, also. But it was really was just for me. And what I do remember about Homecoming as a child, so many came to the dance. The children were not allowed in there. Young people could not go in there it was just for adults only. And we used to go on the outside and I don’t know if we had crates and we used to stand on back of everybody’s shoulder we would try to look in to see what was going on and it was really funny because it was dark in there and we really didn’t know what was going on we just heard the music and we used to always say, ‘boy when I get grown I’m going to be able to go inside.’ But that was something that the children really weren’t allowed in there for the dance and when I did become grown and went inside they were letting everybody in from 5 to whatever. So, it was a totally different atmosphere; but it seemed very exciting as a child and something to look forward to because we weren’t allowed to do that.

DANICA:  Where were the dances held?

DARLENE:  They were in the town hall.

DANICA:  What are some of the things you as a child used to always do to prepare yourself for Homecoming?

DARLENE:  Well, there really wasn’t that much we had to do. No more than make sure we had our summer clothes ready and I remember my mother used to make us take a toothbrush and scrub our tennis shoes and have everything clean and ah we made sure that we had a lunch for that travel and back then they didn’t have air conditioners in the car so we never traveled during the day. We always traveled late at night and it was either my Uncle Charles, Uncle John, or Uncle Norval that used to drive us back to Nicodemus. But that was the only preparation that I as a child had to worry about just to make sure that we had our clothes together or whatever it was that we wanted to take with us. We normally spent every summer down there at my grandmother’s house. But other than that that was just a normal preparation I imagine a child would have to do.

DANICA:  Can you talk a little bit about the changes in Homecoming over time, things that have changed and continue to change the more?

DARLENE:  Well, the most significant change is that attendance is down tremendously. I really couldn’t tell you as a child how many people did attend. I can only say its much more than what I have been seeing in the last 15 to 20 years and there used to be so many people coming back to Nicodemus over that Friday, Saturday and Sunday that I just remember the streets being crowded and there was always someone walking up and down the street and back then  a lot of the people came and they didn’t have anywhere to stay and they literally slept in their cars. And I can remember that because they used to park in front of the hall and I guess after the party or whatever they would just go get in their car and go to sleep. Now I’m quite sure that a lot of that had to do with the fact that back then Blacks were not allowed to stay in the hotels they had in that surrounding area. But that’s the biggest change I’ve seen. The attendance has decreased significantly over the years and I don’t know if it’s because past generations have passed on and the other generations are not aware or have not been informed; but that’s what I’ve noticed most of all. But in reference to the activities it’s really about the same. They would always have a picnic or a place for you to eat. They would have church services and they would have a dance. And I believe those things have been going on since I can remember as a child. What I have noticed is that they seem a little less organized than what they were before. And I don’t know if it’s because of the amount of residents that are left there and their age may have a significant factor on that. I have noticed that in recent years that it’s been more vendor activity where people were selling t-shirts, hats or what have you and as a child I don’t remember  any of that. We never had that type of setup and we never had people selling food and you know things of that nature. Mostly everything we ate was from either one of our generation’s home or some family member or some person in Nicodemus. But that’s it – the attendance has gone down tremendously.

DANICA:  Thinking of future Homecomings, have you ever been on the Homecoming Committee?

DARLENE:  No, I never have. I’m not making excuses. I don’t really know how you go about that. I don’t know if that is something the committee solicits descendants or people from Nicodemus. I really don’t know how that works. But no one has ever come to me and asked me to participate in Homecoming activities. I take that back. Only one time they had a fashion show and they wanted me to model something in the fashion show.

DANICA:  Is there anything you would like to see return back to the Homecoming from older days or what’s some other things you would like to see happen during Homecoming?

DARLENE:  Well, I’d like to see more activities for the children, more structured and organized activities, planned activities where there would be…  it would be nice if during the Homecoming period that there could be some kind type of journal or periodical that would come out to the descendants letting you know what the weekend activities are giving you maybe an opportunity to sign in to those things prior to getting down there. Just really knowing what’s going on even down to the point of what is your social activity, what’s the name of the band, or if there is going to be a band or is there going to be music, where is it at. Things of that nature. Just seems like, and I may be wrong, most people that go to Nicodemus they find out what’s going on through word of mouth and a lot of times – times are incorrect or they may change them. So I think if that could be a little more organized maybe people could plan their schedule better because for years I didn’t know they had anything going on on a Friday and I never tried to come down for Friday. I just assumed Saturday and Sunday were the Homecoming activities. But I’ve seen found out that they do have things that are happening on Friday.